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"O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #31 by ofahn » January 5th, 2013, 7:26 pm

osforlife wrote:There isn't any doubt in my mind Shaun Marcum is better than a #4/#5 starting pitcher


Are you taking into consideration that he's a fly ball pitcher?
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Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #32 by osforlife » January 5th, 2013, 8:04 pm

ofahn wrote:
Are you taking into consideration that he's a fly ball pitcher?

Yes.
2010: 195.1 innings, 3.64 ERA, 3.74 FIP, 1.15 WHIP, 7.6 K/9, 1.98 BB/9
2011: 200.2 innings, 3.54 ERA, 3.73 FIP, 1.16 WHIP, 7.09 K/9, 2.56 BB/9
2012: 124 innings (21 starts, back), 3.70 ERA, 4.10 FIP, 1.27 WHIP, 7.91 K/9, 2.98 BB/9
2013 Bill James: 196 innings, 3.63 ERA, 4.01 FIP, 1.22 WHIP, 7.39 K/9, 2.66 BB/9
He regressed SLIGHTLY in 2012, probably because of his back. No chance he is a back of the rotation starter.
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Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #33 by ofahn » January 5th, 2013, 8:19 pm

osforlife wrote:Yes.
2010: 195.1 innings, 3.64 ERA, 3.74 FIP, 1.15 WHIP, 7.6 K/9, 1.98 BB/9
2011: 200.2 innings, 3.54 ERA, 3.73 FIP, 1.16 WHIP, 7.09 K/9, 2.56 BB/9
2012: 124 innings (21 starts, back), 3.70 ERA, 4.10 FIP, 1.27 WHIP, 7.91 K/9, 2.98 BB/9
2013 Bill James: 196 innings, 3.63 ERA, 4.01 FIP, 1.22 WHIP, 7.39 K/9, 2.66 BB/9
He regressed SLIGHTLY in 2012, probably because of his back. No chance he is a back of the rotation starter.


How would you rate Miller Park against Camden Yards for HRs? There are probably stats somewhere but I don't know where to find them. I believe I'm being reasonable when I show concerns about bringing a fly ball pitcher into our park.
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Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #34 by osforlife » January 5th, 2013, 8:35 pm

ofahn wrote:
How would you rate Miller Park against Camden Yards for HRs? There are probably stats somewhere but I don't know where to find them. I believe I'm being reasonable when I show concerns about bringing a fly ball pitcher into our park.

Is the Rogers Centre not a homerun park?
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Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #35 by ofahn » January 5th, 2013, 8:44 pm

osforlife wrote:Is the Rogers Centre not a homerun park?


I'm not sure I would rate it that way. That's why I love to see some stats on all three parks.
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Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #36 by A_K » January 6th, 2013, 5:51 pm

Fangraphs park factors page. Easily sortable by all whatever statistic you're interested in.

http://www.fangraphs.com/guts.aspx?type ... eason=2011
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Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #37 by ofahn » January 6th, 2013, 5:58 pm

A_K wrote:Fangraphs park factors page. Easily sortable by all whatever statistic you're interested in.

http://www.fangraphs.com/guts.aspx?type ... eason=2011


For every problem there's a solution. Thanks. POINTS!
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Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #38 by thezeroes » January 15th, 2013, 11:56 am

Trying to compare Joe Saunders at his age, the last three years and the contracts that were given to what would be considered his contemporaries I got the following by using the mentioned filter at BR
Spanning two years of baseball seasons 2010 through 2012
Being of the age of 29 to 31
Having started at least 60% of the games they were in and had at least 60 games played.
Sorted by lowest Whip to the highest followed by their 2013 contracts.
James Shields 1.103 $9
Jake Peavy 1.172 $14.50
Dan Haren 1.186 $13.00
CC Sabathia 1.188 $23.00
Colby Lewis 1.201 $2.00
C J Wilson 1.256 $11.00
Joe Blanton 1.350 $6.00
Roberto Hernandez 1.355 $3.25
Joe Saunders 1.368 FA
Kevin Correia 1.387 $4.50
Jeff Francis 1.429 $1.50
Carlos Zambrano 1.462 FA

These were the only pitchers in the past three years to meet those criteria. As you see Joe Saunders falls to the bottom of the list and in-between the $6 to $1.5 Million contracts.
Shields in 2014 has an option of $12 Million
Peavy is extended to $14.5, $15 In 2014 and 2015
Haran may be a FA in 2014
Sabathia is extended to 2016 and owed $23, $23, $25 Million
Wilson is extended to 2016 with $16,$18,$20 million owed
Blanton is signed for 2014 and 2015 at $7.5 and $8.0 Million
Hernandez will become a FA
Correia is signed for 2014 at $5.5
Francis will become a FA
Zambrano should be out of baseball, what a head case.IMO
Saunders could be given a front loaded contract that would be a trad-able commodity when Bundy and Gausman are ready.
2013 = $6.0 Million Base, $.5 Cy Young, $.250 MVP of Playoffs and/or World Series,
2014 = $3.5 Million Base + above incentives
2015 = $1.5 Million Base + above incentives
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Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #39 by ofahn » January 15th, 2013, 12:30 pm

thezeroes wrote:Saunders could be given a front loaded contract that would be a trad-able commodity when Bundy and Gausman are ready.
2013 = $6.0 Million Base, $.5 Cy Young, $.250 MVP of Playoffs and/or World Series,
2014 = $3.5 Million Base + above incentives
2015 = $1.5 Million Base + above incentives


First, this effing GREAT research and deserves POINTS! I wish I could give you more than one.

Second, I would sign him to that contract in a heartbeat, but I wonder if HE would accept it. It's really thinking outside the box and is IMO an excellent solution.
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Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #40 by birdwatcher55 » January 15th, 2013, 3:10 pm

thezeroes wrote:Trying to compare Joe Saunders at his age, the last three years and the contracts that were given to what would be considered his contemporaries I got the following by using the mentioned filter at BR
Spanning two years of baseball seasons 2010 through 2012
Being of the age of 29 to 31
Having started at least 60% of the games they were in and had at least 60 games played.
Sorted by lowest Whip to the highest followed by their 2013 contracts.
James Shields 1.103 $9
Jake Peavy 1.172 $14.50
Dan Haren 1.186 $13.00
CC Sabathia 1.188 $23.00
Colby Lewis 1.201 $2.00
C J Wilson 1.256 $11.00
Joe Blanton 1.350 $6.00
Roberto Hernandez 1.355 $3.25
Joe Saunders 1.368 FA
Kevin Correia 1.387 $4.50
Jeff Francis 1.429 $1.50
Carlos Zambrano 1.462 FA

These were the only pitchers in the past three years to meet those criteria. As you see Joe Saunders falls to the bottom of the list and in-between the $6 to $1.5 Million contracts.
Shields in 2014 has an option of $12 Million
Peavy is extended to $14.5, $15 In 2014 and 2015
Haran may be a FA in 2014
Sabathia is extended to 2016 and owed $23, $23, $25 Million
Wilson is extended to 2016 with $16,$18,$20 million owed
Blanton is signed for 2014 and 2015 at $7.5 and $8.0 Million
Hernandez will become a FA
Correia is signed for 2014 at $5.5
Francis will become a FA
Zambrano should be out of baseball, what a head case.IMO
Saunders could be given a front loaded contract that would be a trad-able commodity when Bundy and Gausman are ready.
2013 = $6.0 Million Base, $.5 Cy Young, $.250 MVP of Playoffs and/or World Series,
2014 = $3.5 Million Base + above incentives
2015 = $1.5 Million Base + above incentives


I definitely would not pay Saunders $8 mil per. I would rather hand the ball to Britton or Johnson and spend my bucks elsewhere 8-)
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Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #41 by thezeroes » January 15th, 2013, 3:32 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:I definitely would not pay Saunders $8 mil per. I would rather hand the ball to Britton or Johnson and spend my bucks elsewhere


I re-read what I wrote and can NOT find within the confines of the written text any statement saying $8 Million Per Year. I would have to think you are responding to someone else or did not bother reading the entire text. The following was my proposal.

Saunders could be given a front loaded contract that would be a trad-able commodity when Bundy and Gausman are ready.
2013 = $6.0 Million Base, $.5 Cy Young, $.250 MVP of Playoffs and/or World Series,
2014 = $3.5 Million Base + above incentives
2015 = $1.5 Million Base + above incentives

IF he wins the Cy Young the added $500,000 would be peanuts in comparison to the base and compared to CC Sabathias contract.
I could see ann added bonus to the 2014 contract of $1Million if he meets any of the incentives. Think of it $4.5 Million for the previous years Cy Young Winner. Talk about the most bang for the buck.
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Re: "O's still in talks with Joe Saunders" & "want to add a starter"

PostPost #42 by birdwatcher55 » January 15th, 2013, 4:05 pm

My mistake: I was looking at Blanton and thinking Saunders LOL.. We almost had both last season.But you are right: those are much better figures!! 8-)
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