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What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #16 by Seafordeagles » December 29th, 2012, 2:00 pm

At the time Roberts signed his contract it was a steal. I would have blamed Angelos for not extending Roberts. Or if anyone is to blame then blame Roberts for beating himself in the head with a bat. That was the real problem.

If you think the Roberts extension was so ill advised in my opinion you are totally wrong. The ill advised part was beating himself in the head. Angelos did the right thing in signing Roberts who was at the top of his game and was arguably one of the top lead off hitters in the game. The hip has nothing to do with the 2 seasons he lost. The trade offer the Orioles were offered was total crap like you touched on. That was the best offer the Orioles received.
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #17 by ofahn » December 29th, 2012, 3:49 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:At the time Roberts signed his contract it was a steal. I would have blamed Angelos for not extending Roberts. Or if anyone is to blame then blame Roberts for beating himself in the head with a bat. That was the real problem.

If you think the Roberts extension was so ill advised in my opinion you are totally wrong. The ill advised part was beating himself in the head. Angelos did the right thing in signing Roberts who was at the top of his game and was arguably one of the top lead off hitters in the game. The hip has nothing to do with the 2 seasons he lost. The trade offer the Orioles were offered was total crap like you touched on. That was the best offer the Orioles received.


Please reread what I wrote.
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #18 by Seafordeagles » December 29th, 2012, 4:10 pm

ofahn wrote:
Please reread what I wrote.


Well here's what you wrote and this is what I based "my opinion" on:

Brian Roberts was given an ill advised contract extension because Peter Angelos thought he knew better than competent baseball people. If you want to be angry at anyone I would suggest you focus on him.

I've now reread it 5 times and in my opinion I disagree with your assessment.
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #19 by ofahn » December 29th, 2012, 4:23 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
Well here's what you wrote and this is what I based "my opinion" on:

Brian Roberts was given an ill advised contract extension because Peter Angelos thought he knew better than competent baseball people. If you want to be angry at anyone I would suggest you focus on him.

I've now reread it 5 times and in my opinion I disagree with your assessment.


Apparently, in that frenzy of rereading you missed this:

He should have been traded during the 2007 and 2008 off seasons for a pile of prospects to fill a completely barren farm system, but Peter Angelos didn't want to give up one of the few attractions he thought would bring in the fans. His meddling prevented us from getting some talent that would have been part of a winning team now. You could also argue that the 28M in salary Roberts earned from 2009 to 2011 (less the 10M his replacement would have cost) could have been used in the draft and international signings when there wasn't any restrictions on the amount a team spent. Just imagine how we could match up with other teams for trades right now if we had just two more Schoops and two more Delmonicos or Bridwells.

Yes, I'm aware that the package that the Cubs were supposedly offering was a bunch of crap, but we'll never really know what a team that needed a 2B at that time would have offered if Roberts had ever REALLY been put on the market. Imagine one more Tillman or Adam Jones in our system at this point.


It CLEARLY provides a counterpoint to why Roberts extension was not a "steal".
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #20 by Seafordeagles » December 29th, 2012, 4:38 pm

ofahn wrote:



Apparently, in that frenzy of rereading you missed this:



It CLEARLY provides a counterpoint to why Roberts extension was not a "steal".


You have your opinion and I'll have mine. The guy was solid and great until the bat incident and if you can't see that then we'll just move along to another subject when the time arises. By the way, if every prospect comes close to the level that Brian Roberts was then you might have something. Prospects=Suspects, that's a quote from a well known general manager. I have to agree with him because less than 10% of all prospects actually have a decent major league career.
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #21 by ofahn » December 29th, 2012, 5:00 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:You have your opinion and I'll have mine


I agree 100% with that. What I DIDN'T agree with is your contention that I thought his extension was "ill advised" when I felt I had clearly explained why NOT converting him into quality prospects when we had NOTHING in our farm system was the best course. It's a distinction with an important difference.

Seafordeagles wrote:Prospects=Suspects, that's a quote from a well known general manager. I have to agree with him because less than 10% of all prospects actually have a decent major league career.


If you took ALL of the players described as prospects in any one year that math might work. If you're describing. say. the top 50 prospects chosen by some of the national ranking organizations then that math is WAY off. I am not a professional evaluator, but I've been pretty successful at recognizing what talent will make it at the ML level by looking at the relevant peripherals. After a couple of years of professional competition you can see if a player is able to covert their potential into results. Then it's just a matter of keeping healthy until they have enough experience to matriculate to the ML roster. I'm usually right about 60% of the time.

What we could have received in return for Brian Roberts would have probably had at least that percentage of a chance to make a ML return. If there had been two top prospects then we would have seen at least one ML player. If there would have been three then we might have seen two.
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #22 by OriolesRedskins28 » December 29th, 2012, 6:06 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:The guy was solid and great until the bat incident


I don't think anybody would argue that with you but I think one of the key points is the organization was not in a position to give him an extension at that time. They were (or at least should have been) in full rebuild mode and while prospects are far from sure things, I agree with ofahn that Roberts should have been flipped for prospects at that time because that's what rebuilding teams should do. A rebuilding team shouldn't give a fairly large contract extension to an aging middle infielder that lasts through his age 35 season. That is a recipe for disappointment for any team but especially a rebuilding team who can't really afford such a mistake.
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #23 by Seafordeagles » December 29th, 2012, 6:58 pm

OriolesRedskins28 wrote:
I don't think anybody would argue that with you but I think one of the key points is the organization was not in a position to give him an extension at that time. They were (or at least should have been) in full rebuild mode and while prospects are far from sure things, I agree with ofahn that Roberts should have been flipped for prospects at that time because that's what rebuilding teams should do. A rebuilding team shouldn't give a fairly large contract extension to an aging middle infielder that lasts through his age 35 season. That is a recipe for disappointment for any team but especially a rebuilding team who can't really afford such a mistake.


He should have not been flipped for the Cubs prospects (and he wasn't) and that was the best deal on the table. There was not any other deals that were made public.

We just can't make up these trades in "our" minds when we are not the one's that pull the trigger. There's too much fantasy league crap that has nothing to do with what went on in real life. There was one legitimate offer and it was pure trash.
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #24 by ofahn » December 29th, 2012, 7:09 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:There was not any other deals that were made public.


It's a shame you didn't just post THAT statement instead of preceding it with this one.

Seafordeagles wrote:He should have not been flipped for the Cubs prospects (and he wasn't) and that was the best deal on the table.


ONE of them is based on reality and the other isn't.
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #25 by Seafordeagles » December 29th, 2012, 8:33 pm

ofahn wrote:
It's a shame you didn't just post THAT statement instead of preceding it with this one.



ONE of them is based on reality and the other isn't.


Okay, thank you.
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #26 by dan72 » December 29th, 2012, 10:25 pm

I think his speed is gone because of the hip and the age. The glove and bat who knows. We have seen so little of him in the last 3 years it's hard to say where those tools will be. My guess would be equal to but not better than the other guys on the roster. I feel confident in predicting that he will not produce up to his contract earnings so in my opinion he is taking money that would be better spent somewhere else in the organization. Nothing that can really be done about that now.
Fans have every right to be frustrated with Brian since his downfall was completely his own doing. Another thought is that even if healthy bring '10 & '11, we still would have been a last place team so I'm not sure that one guy really made much difference.
I have to wonder if Angelos is hesitant to spend based on the deals given to Markakis and Roberts? Clearly neither have lived up to expectation......don't get me wrong, I am a huge Markakis fan.
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #27 by ofahn » December 29th, 2012, 10:37 pm

dan72 wrote:his downfall was completely his own doing


Why do you feel that way?
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #28 by dan72 » December 29th, 2012, 10:44 pm

He did bash himself in the head with a bat.
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #29 by ofahn » December 29th, 2012, 10:48 pm

dan72 wrote:He did bash himself in the head with a bat.


I believe it was unintentional. Are you saying it was on purpose?
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Re: What is the latest on Brian Roberts? Is there a timetable on his

PostPost #30 by dan72 » December 29th, 2012, 11:07 pm

Not claiming it was intentional, but it was self inflicted. My job requires me to type on a keyboard. If I punch a wall and brake my hand and can no longer type, what do you think will happen to me. I'm pretty sure I would get fired. In order for the Orioles to fire Brian, they would have to pay him a hole truck load of money first. That's not going to happen so for the remainder of his contract, we will have to put up with his sub par performance.
I hope he returns to his prime production but I think we all know that's not likely.
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