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Boston Red Sox

Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #16 by osforlife » December 14th, 2012, 10:23 pm

For some reason, I am a highly conservative imaginary GM. I like to stay in-house on alot of situatons and only pretend buy free agents when that team specifically has to. This is why I idle the Rays so much and hate the Dodgers so much. And this is why GM's are the GM's and I'll likely be commenting on baseball websites all my life ha. What I'am getting at is, I don't think the Redsox are going to be a good team. Sure, their bullpen will likely get better as well as their offense(at a high, fooolish, cost), but their starting rotation will continue to be very bad. Buchholz has never been effective over a full season as the most starts he's ever had in one season was 29. 2008 was a good year for him but it was cut short. He really hasn't had that many nice results after that. Who knows what Lester will do. Lackey is terrible. Dempster will get eaten alive by the American League and Fenway Park. Doubront had a decent rookie year but isn't supposed to get much better. What I'am saying is, I don't think they'll have a good team. That's why I would give Lavarnway, Nava, Kalish, Gomez, and Ciriaco a full season of at-bats. Again, I'am crazy.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #17 by ofahn » December 14th, 2012, 10:40 pm

osforlife wrote:For some reason, I am a highly conservative imaginary GM. I like to stay in-house on alot of situatons and only pretend buy free agents when that team specifically has to. This is why I idle the Rays so much and hate the Dodgers so much. And this is why GM's are the GM's and I'll likely be commenting on baseball websites all my life ha. What I'am getting at is, I don't think the Redsox are going to be a good team. Sure, their bullpen will likely get better as well as their offense(at a high, fooolish, cost), but their starting rotation will continue to be very bad. Buchholz has never been effective over a full season as the most starts he's ever had in one season was 29. 2008 was a good year for him but it was cut short. He really hasn't had that many nice results after that. Who knows what Lester will do. Lackey is terrible. Dempster will get eaten alive by the American League and Fenway Park. Doubront had a decent rookie year but isn't supposed to get much better. What I'am saying is, I don't think they'll have a good team. That's why I would give Lavarnway, Nava, Kalish, Gomez, and Ciriaco a full season of at-bats. Again, I'am crazy.


If I were Ben Cherington I would melt that pile of goo down and start all over again BUT; if he did that the Sux fans would eat him alive, poop him out, and set THAT on fire. He had to overpay for mediocre players in order to put a team on the field that MIGHT not lose 90 games. Look for it to get REALLY ugly in Red Sox Nation about August 1st.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #18 by birdwatcher55 » December 16th, 2012, 9:12 am

osforlife wrote:Alone Mike Napoli was more effective than Gonzalez. Mike Napoli virtually had the same OBP as Adrian Gonzalez last year. Not to mention Napoli had more homeruns and a better slugging than Gonzalez. Where did you get your information?

To borrow a Buck Phrase, Agon has a good track record of putting up HR and RBI numbers. I would not deal him for the three Red Sox signed. BTW: Agon is a GG calibar player. The other three are let's just say something less 8-)
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #19 by osforlife » December 16th, 2012, 3:05 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:To borrow a Buck Phrase, Agon has a good track record of putting up HR and RBI numbers. I would not deal him for the three Red Sox signed. BTW: Agon is a GG calibar player. The other three are let's just say something less 8-)

Last year, Adrian Gonzalez provided 18 homeruns, 108 RBI's, and 75 runs. Last year, Victorino/Gomes/Napoli combined provided 53 homeruns, 158 RBI's, and 171 runs. Adrian Gonzalez has 3 gold gloves. Shane Victorino has 3 gold gloves.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #20 by Matt P » December 16th, 2012, 11:51 pm

RBI's and runs scored aren't complete stats though. They don't ever tell the whole story. A lot of players could have significantly more or less RBI if they were on a different team.

Adding three players totals vs one will typically always favor the three players. The thing you are forgetting is that of the three players you guys are discussing two of them are platoon players and one of them is all bat no glove and that bat isn't anything special.

Not saying that Adrian Gonzalez is a good contract or anything just that the argument is silly.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #21 by osforlife » December 17th, 2012, 6:25 am

Matt P wrote:RBI's and runs scored aren't complete stats though. They don't ever tell the whole story. A lot of players could have significantly more or less RBI if they were on a different team.

Adding three players totals vs one will typically always favor the three players. The thing you are forgetting is that of the three players you guys are discussing two of them are platoon players and one of them is all bat no glove and that bat isn't anything special.

Not saying that Adrian Gonzalez is a good contract or anything just that the argument is silly.

I don't think anyone would argue with you that Adrian Gonzalez is the best out of that bunch..although Napoli's 2011 season was insane. But, birdwatcher said you likely won't get the production from the three guys they just signed over Adrian Gonzalez's production.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #22 by Matt P » December 17th, 2012, 10:31 pm

osforlife wrote:I don't think anyone would argue with you that Adrian Gonzalez is the best out of that bunch..although Napoli's 2011 season was insane. But, birdwatcher said you likely won't get the production from the three guys they just signed over Adrian Gonzalez's production.
He said he would not deal Gonzalez for them not that they wouldn't combine to equal his production.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #23 by osforlife » December 18th, 2012, 3:12 pm

Matt P wrote:He said he would not deal Gonzalez for them not that they wouldn't combine to equal his production.

Birdwatcher said: "Good point, Matt. They are essentially spending $32 million next year on three players who combined aren't likely to equal the production Adrian Gonzales would give them." on the first page of this thread.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #24 by Matt P » December 18th, 2012, 9:32 pm

osforlife wrote:Birdwatcher said: "Good point, Matt. They are essentially spending $32 million next year on three players who combined aren't likely to equal the production Adrian Gonzales would give them." on the first page of this thread.

Didn't see that, my bad.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #25 by Matt P » December 19th, 2012, 12:39 pm

You know, the more I think about it now that they signed Stephen Drew and Ryan Dempster the more I think the Red Sox do actually have a plan.

I think what they are doing is attempting to maintain a .500 team over the next 2 or 3 years that if they get some breaks can maybe make the playoffs while they are focused on the long term success of the team. The thing is, they have extra cash that they can just throw away to keep the fans engaged with the team. They don't need to finish last place every year while they build up a team and save money and risk losing fans.

I could be wrong but if that is what they are doing it's not nearly as bad as I originally thought. They are overpaying players but they have the finances to do it and they are only doing it for the next 2 or 3 seasons. Actually, I kinda think it's a good idea. Why alienate fans as you finish in last place for a few years when you can be an average club that keeps the fans around. It must be nice to have extra cash to do that.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #26 by ofahn » December 19th, 2012, 12:48 pm

Matt P wrote:You know, the more I think about it now that they signed Stephen Drew and Ryan Dempster the more I think the Red Sox do actually have a plan.

I think what they are doing is attempting to maintain a .500 team over the next 2 or 3 years that if they get some breaks can maybe make the playoffs while they are focused on the long term success of the team. The thing is, they have extra cash that they can just throw away to keep the fans engaged with the team. They don't need to finish last place every year while they build up a team and save money and risk losing fans.

I could be wrong but if that is what they are doing it's not nearly as bad as I originally thought. They are overpaying players but they have the finances to do it and they are only doing it for the next 2 or 3 seasons. Actually, I kinda think it's a good idea. Why alienate fans as you finish in last place for a few years when you can be an average club that keeps the fans around. It must be nice to have extra cash to do that.


This is exactly what I was expecting them to do while they beat the bushes looking for quality prospects.

Where I can see things getting interesting is when their better prospects are ML ready and the aging veterans they just signed lose playing time. It will take a STRONG hand in the clubhouse to deal with that drama.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #27 by Matt P » December 19th, 2012, 12:54 pm

ofahn wrote:
This is exactly what I was expecting them to do while they beat the bushes looking for quality prospects.

Where I can see things getting interesting is when their better prospects are ML ready and the aging veterans they just signed lose playing time. It will take a STRONG hand in the clubhouse to deal with that drama.


It seems like their better prospects won't be ready until at least 2014 when Victorino and Napoli only have 1 year left. If they aren't producing there won't be much drama. If they are producing the Red Sox will be in a position all clubs want to be in. It seems like there goal is to figure out their prospects by 2015 and then decide what they are going to do. All these signings are just band aids until 2015 to keep the fans interested.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #28 by ofahn » December 19th, 2012, 1:18 pm

Matt P wrote:If they aren't producing there won't be much drama.


I don't think your opinion takes into account the egos involved. If they're still performing at a reasonable level they can be traded, but you're STILL looking at a potential "Youk" situation times at least two and maybe three.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #29 by Matt P » December 20th, 2012, 12:52 am

ofahn wrote:
I don't think your opinion takes into account the egos involved. If they're still performing at a reasonable level they can be traded, but you're STILL looking at a potential "Youk" situation times at least two and maybe three.


They also won't have Bobby Valentine magnifying things though.
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Re: Boston Red Sox

PostPost #30 by ofahn » December 20th, 2012, 8:54 am

Matt P wrote:
They also won't have Bobby Valentine magnifying things though.


Ego problems will always find a spark to start the fire.
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