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Why do the O's need to make a move?

Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #16 by Seafordeagles » December 16th, 2012, 1:13 pm

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:I'd like them to spend money too, but they are not in a position to do so. If they were a surefire good team then spending money would be a good move. But, until the look like they are going to be good for a few years in a row I do not see a reason to use 1/4 of the payroll on a guy like Josh Hamilton.


You lost me at this statement:

I'd like them to spend money too, but they are not in a position to do so.

This is where I think you are totally wrong. The Orioles make and pocket a huge sum of money and they have been for years. There's an old saying, "you have to spend money to make money".
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #17 by Jordan Tuwiner » December 16th, 2012, 1:15 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
You lost me at this statement:

I'd like them to spend money too, but they are not in a position to do so.

This is where I think you are totally wrong. The Orioles make and pocket a huge sum of money and they have been for years.

I would like the Orioles to be in a position to spend money, but at this stage they are not. When they look like a 90-win team without a big FA signing that is when I would make a splash.
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #18 by ofahn » December 16th, 2012, 1:24 pm

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:I would like the Orioles to be in a position to spend money, but at this stage they are not. When they look like a 90-win team without a big FA signing that is when I would make a splash.


That's certainly my POV and it appears it's DD's, too.
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #19 by Seafordeagles » December 16th, 2012, 1:36 pm

To date the Orioles have signed one free agent for 2 million who is coming off a season where he was released by a sub-par team. Don't you think that's kind of sad for a "playoff team" that should want to improve on last years finish?

Jordan, you really lost me with this statement:

"When they look like a 90-win team without a big FA signing that is when I would make a splash."

Can you elaborate more? I mean they were a 90-win team last season. Why wait until they are a 80 win team?
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #20 by Jordan Tuwiner » December 16th, 2012, 1:41 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:To date the Orioles have signed one free agent for 2 million who is coming off a season where he was released by a sub-par team. Don't you think that's kind of sad for a "playoff team" that should want to improve on last years finish?

Can you elaborate more? I mean they were a 90-win team last season. Why wait until they are a 80 win team?

I do not believe they should not make a move. I just don't want them to make a move for the sake of making a move. Looking at the contracts, what FA signing should the Orioles have made? If there was a good trade out there, I trust that Duquette would have already made it.

I want them to improve as much as anyone but I really don't see what they could have done. They certainly should not do anything out of desperation to just "do something". It's kind of like taking a kid into a store and telling them they can get something. Some kids will buy something because they can, while others may pass because they don't see anything they like.

They were a 90 win team last year, but I think even Buck knows they may have been playing over their heads. If the O's hit 90 wins again this year I think we'll see them make a big move next off-season.

Also, remember, this off season is not over yet.
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #21 by Seafordeagles » December 16th, 2012, 1:46 pm

ofahn wrote:
That's certainly my POV and it appears it's DD's, too.


My personal opinion is DD wants to spend money. After all he did it with Boston. I think it appears that DD has guidance about how much he can spend. The old boy (I hope you can guess who that is) is in it for the profits and that will never change no matter what "product" is on the field.
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #22 by Seafordeagles » December 16th, 2012, 1:47 pm

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:Also, remember, this off season is not over yet.


That's why I said "to date".
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #23 by ofahn » December 16th, 2012, 2:44 pm

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:I do not believe they should not make a move. I just don't want them to make a move for the sake of making a move. Looking at the contracts, what FA signing should the Orioles have made? If there was a good trade out there, I trust that Duquette would have already made it.

I want them to improve as much as anyone but I really don't see what they could have done. They certainly should not do anything out of desperation to just "do something". It's kind of like taking a kid into a store and telling them they can get something. Some kids will buy something because they can, while others may pass because they don't see anything they like.

They were a 90 win team last year, but I think even Buck knows they may have been playing over their heads. If the O's hit 90 wins again this year I think we'll see them make a big move next off-season.

Also, remember, this off season is not over yet.


I'm not trying to speak for Jordan but I think he's also implying that we really don't know whether last year was a statistical fluke or not. Almost every coin flip went our way. If we were talking about a player's inflated BABIP we would be VERY cautious about making a long term commitment to him off of ONE lucky year. Yet some fans feel that we'll be just as lucky this year as last. IMO this year we're going to need more performance because we'll have less luck.
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #24 by ofahn » December 16th, 2012, 2:48 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:The old boy (I hope you can guess who that is) is in it for the profits and that will never change no matter what "product" is on the field.


I accept that as the truth; however, you give the appearance that you won't. It IS the reality we're going to have to live with.

I will say this about Peter Angelos (and I'm NOT a fan of his) he did allow the team to have one of the league's highest payrolls in the late 90s when there was no doubt it was a solid team. Maybe he just needs to see one more year of success to green light the money again.
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #25 by OriolesRedskins28 » December 16th, 2012, 11:01 pm

It's important not to become too spoiled off of the Orioles first playoff appearance in FOREVER. It was a magical year, they over performed all the way into the playoffs, but as Jordan said they are not a surefire playoff team by any means. One player would not elevate them to that level. Hamilton would indeed make a large impact on the team and might vault them into the playoffs but that would be no guarantee. We will see in 4+ years when the Angels, Tigers, and Yankees are handicapped by GIGANTIC salaries on their payroll for under performing players.

This year may be a step back to earth but it's hard not to like the position of the franchise. For the first time in forever the Orioles have great SP depth. Also, don't forget about Bundy and Gausman who will probably get their feet wet in the majors at some point this year and will be in position to be major contributors in 2014.

Why go out and mess things up by risking the future (and present) for one player?
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #26 by OriolesRedskins28 » December 16th, 2012, 11:10 pm

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:I want them to improve as much as anyone but I really don't see what they could have done. They certainly should not do anything out of desperation to just "do something". It's kind of like taking a kid into a store and telling them they can get something. Some kids will buy something because they can, while others may pass because they don't see anything they like.


VERY well said.

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:If the O's hit 90 wins again this year I think we'll see them make a big move next off-season.


Couldn't agree more. Would like an aggressive impact signing or trade in that scenario but no albatross, Fielder, Pujols, Greinke, or even Hamilton (too much risk involved) contracts.

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:Also, remember, this off season is not over yet.


There's also always the trade deadline if the team is contending come July.
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #27 by ofahn » December 16th, 2012, 11:19 pm

OriolesRedskins28 wrote:There's also always the trade deadline if the team is contending come July.


This team could REALLY take a step forward if our second tier prospects (6 through 15) develop in a big way next season so we would have some serious currency to trade in June and July. Right now we only have enough premium prospects to fill current or pending holes on our 25 Man Roster. If guys like Avery and Hoes play at a .850 OPS or better clip or Bridwell is lights out the first two months we suddenly have what it would take to acquire a premium player in a trade.

IMO the development of our prospects is just as important to winning as how the players in Baltimore perform.
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #28 by A_K » December 17th, 2012, 1:43 pm

There hasn't been a move yet where I've thought, "Wow, ______ got great value on that acquisition. I really wish the O's had made that move." I think Dempster was a good acquisition by the Red Sox and I would have liked it if the O's made that move, but I'm really not too broken up that it didn't happen. If the Angels are willing to move Bourjos, I would have rather the O's done that than re-sign McLouth... though I also didn't have any problem with McLouth's contract and don't yet know what Bourjos might cost. I would have been happy to see the O's give McCarthy the same contract he got from Arizona. None of this is forcing me to lose any sleep.

I'm pretty unsatisfied with the 2B options, and am very much in support of a hypothetical mystery trade that would bring in something other than the four Robert Andinos they have right now. I'd like to see them add a hypothetical mid-order bat who could DH or, even better, play 1B so Davis can DH. But I have no real targets in mind for either of those acquisitions, mostly because I have no idea who's available via trade, so it's tough for me to get too worked up.
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #29 by ofahn » December 17th, 2012, 3:27 pm

A_K wrote:There hasn't been a move yet where I've thought, "Wow, ______ got great value on that acquisition. I really wish the O's had made that move." I think Dempster was a good acquisition by the Red Sox and I would have liked it if the O's made that move, but I'm really not too broken up that it didn't happen. If the Angels are willing to move Bourjos, I would have rather the O's done that than re-sign McLouth... though I also didn't have any problem with McLouth's contract and don't yet know what Bourjos might cost. I would have been happy to see the O's give McCarthy the same contract he got from Arizona. None of this is forcing me to lose any sleep.

I'm pretty unsatisfied with the 2B options, and am very much in support of a hypothetical mystery trade that would bring in something other than the four Robert Andinos they have right now. I'd like to see them add a hypothetical mid-order bat who could DH or, even better, play 1B so Davis can DH. But I have no real targets in mind for either of those acquisitions, mostly because I have no idea who's available via trade, so it's tough for me to get too worked up.


The one bat left on the market I would like to see them land is LaRoche. I believe Davis could play at least an average or better defense at 1B, but LaRoche should be at least above average and the bat would fit nicely in the lineup.
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Re: Why do the O's need to make a move?

PostPost #30 by ofahn » December 17th, 2012, 3:27 pm

A_K wrote:There hasn't been a move yet where I've thought, "Wow, ______ got great value on that acquisition. I really wish the O's had made that move." I think Dempster was a good acquisition by the Red Sox and I would have liked it if the O's made that move, but I'm really not too broken up that it didn't happen. If the Angels are willing to move Bourjos, I would have rather the O's done that than re-sign McLouth... though I also didn't have any problem with McLouth's contract and don't yet know what Bourjos might cost. I would have been happy to see the O's give McCarthy the same contract he got from Arizona. None of this is forcing me to lose any sleep.

I'm pretty unsatisfied with the 2B options, and am very much in support of a hypothetical mystery trade that would bring in something other than the four Robert Andinos they have right now. I'd like to see them add a hypothetical mid-order bat who could DH or, even better, play 1B so Davis can DH. But I have no real targets in mind for either of those acquisitions, mostly because I have no idea who's available via trade, so it's tough for me to get too worked up.


The one bat left on the market I would like to see them land is LaRoche. I believe Davis could play at least an average or better defense at 1B, but LaRoche should be at least above average and the bat would fit nicely in the lineup.
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