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Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #16 by Jordan Tuwiner » November 4th, 2012, 2:08 am

Old Sneakers wrote:
I am guessing you see the reports of Brian Roberts to return to 100% is a pure smokescreen then?

I just think it's important for Machado to play SS.
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #17 by Old Sneakers » November 4th, 2012, 3:27 am

Your thinking does have merit. Have to wonder though where JJ Hardy lines up on this however. He's still young/athletic enough to remain at SS and is an excellent defender as well as productive bat. Especially when you consider the position. Machado is not a finished product though, he can get a great deal better at the plate. Another season at 3B would not be a bad thing. However if he is going to be a SS it may be another year or at the latest two before we see him moved there. Any longer then that and I think it will be seen as a failure.

For next season, I really want a lead off hitter. I do not care if it's Brian Roberts, L.J. Hoes or someone we manage to pick up at the winter meetings. Perhaps all three are possibilities. What I do know is that as serviceable Nick Markakis is leading off he really belongs batting second. We fix that part of the lineup and run production should significantly increase. The team has enough power. Though power seems to come in bunches. I would feel much better about contending seriously next season with the ability to manufacture runs when that power isn't there.
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #18 by thezeroes » November 4th, 2012, 8:14 am

Catcher, Matt Wieters, not broke no need to fix, Teagarden would be a survivable/serviceable backup if below $.7 million per year.

First Base/DH, do we resign Reynolds, if not can Davis/Betemit/Mahoney may be in house candidates. If he could be had for some of the removable piching parts/prospects I would look into V-Mart from Detroit. (Just my dream)

Second Base, Roberts health and dependability is the question mark, Flaherty/Casilla are in house candidates, Schoop is in the minors, Andino may be to expensive for the production level he gave the last 4 months (.172/.259/.266/.525).

Shortstop, Hardy garnered his first GG, has shown he is top five at the position, not broke no need to fix.

Third Base, Machado has filled in nicely at a position that is not seen as natural, his defense was better than expected, I see it as not broke no need to fix.

Left Field, Reimold, Davis, Betemit, Hoes, Avery are all in house candidates, do they resign McLouth and think his 260 plus at bats from June on are the real Nate or the 650 At Bats of prior futility is the real Nate.

Center Field, Adam Jones, not broke, no need to fix.

Right Field, Nick Markakis, not broke no need to fix.

Starting Pitching, with 8/10 in-house candidates and two up and coming MiLB players the only thing needed may be an anchor such as Saunders at reasonable price and short term. No need to tie up big bucks when the internals may work out better at a lesser price.

Relief Pitching, needs to be tweaked to the extent of figuring out which of the performers may regress and which will add to their portfolios. Ayala optioned picked up, Strop rested, 3 or 4 failed starters to go long relief, adding Wada from the DL, Pomeranz in the wings. This area also is not broke no need to fix just adjust.

Bench, with the way Dan Duquette and Buck Showalter worked the options and waiver wire this past season I see no reason to think they can not duplicate some of the same magic. Some failures but overall a decent mix was brought in and it worked.
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #19 by Old Sneakers » November 4th, 2012, 10:49 am

@ thezereos

Very nice well thought out post. Points to you sir ;)
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #20 by rudyrooster » November 4th, 2012, 11:36 am

Top Priority: You can never have too much quality starting pitchers.
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #21 by osforlife » November 4th, 2012, 12:57 pm

I do not see a GLARING need even if we went in to 2013 opening day with the roster we have now. At worst, Hoes could play left, Roberts and then Casilla will play second, Hardy could play 3rd and Machado could play SS, Davis could play 1st, and we have plenty of 5th starter options. That being said, re-signing Rick Petersen would be my #1 off-season priority. But signing a mid-rotation starter, trading for Chase Headley, and possibly finding a left field solution are all priorities.
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #22 by Seafordeagles » November 4th, 2012, 1:13 pm

I'm totally puzzled why anyone would even consider or mention moving the gold glove shortstop to ANY other position. I guarantee you this much, Buck has not considered it and he's the one who counts.

It is not a #1 priority. To me the priority is to try to get Ian Kinzler who already has a replacement in Profar. Put Kinzler in the 2 slot and this team is already so much better. Then sign his buddy for left field who only had a career high in home runs last year and had his 2nd best rbi total of his career which was 2 less then his best season. Get him out of the scorching heat of Texas and see what he does then.
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #23 by ofahn » November 4th, 2012, 2:23 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:To me the priority is to try to get Ian Kinzler


In essence you're suggesting that we take our chances on Brian Roberts, The Sequel. Kinzler would be almost the same age as Roberts was when he signed his extension, and our obligation to Kinzler would actually be LONGER than it was to Roberts. All of this for a player that is now starting on the downside of his career, just like Roberts. Thank you, no; PASS!!

I just don't see any viable solution or "quick fix" for 2B. IF (and that's a BIG if) we can make a sensible trade for Headley then we MIGHT have a log jam in the infield. Thirty seconds after that trade is finalized I would be calling Hardy and asking him IF he's willing to move to 2B If Roberts tells the team he's NOT ready for ST. If Roberts IS ready then we could simply option Machado to AAA and allow him to continue his development until we see if Roberts will break down again. It's a win-win situation.

IMO the best long term solution at 2B is finding a prospect and developing him; or trading for a YOUNG 2B. Signing or trading for an over aged over priced player is not in our best interests.
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #24 by Seafordeagles » November 4th, 2012, 8:23 pm

ofahn wrote:
In essence you're suggesting that we take our chances on Brian Roberts, The Sequel. Kinzler would be almost the same age as Roberts was when he signed his extension, and our obligation to Kinzler would actually be LONGER than it was to Roberts. All of this for a player that is now starting on the downside of his career, just like Roberts. Thank you, no; PASS!!

I just don't see any viable solution or "quick fix" for 2B. IF (and that's a BIG if) we can make a sensible trade for Headley then we MIGHT have a log jam in the infield. Thirty seconds after that trade is finalized I would be calling Hardy and asking him IF he's willing to move to 2B If Roberts tells the team he's NOT ready for ST. If Roberts IS ready then we could simply option Machado to AAA and allow him to continue his development until we see if Roberts will break down again. It's a win-win situation.

IMO the best long term solution at 2B is finding a prospect and developing him; or trading for a YOUNG 2B. Signing or trading for an over aged over priced player is not in our best interests.



In essence that thought never crossed my mind and I never SUGGESTED that. They are 2 totally different players, always have been and always will. It's obvious you can't see that.

I also noticed how you are big on players not playing there natural position and moving to other positions. I am flat out against moving Hardy to any other position and it just makes no sense to me whatsoever. How do you know that Hardy can make the adjustment to playing 2nd base. The throws are completely different. Leave Hardy at short, leave Machado at 3rd and fill the hole at 2nd base with a CAPABLE 2nd baseman.

I guarantee you that Buck is going to leave Hardy and Machado in the positions they ended last season playing.
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #25 by birdwatcher55 » November 4th, 2012, 8:33 pm

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:
  • Starting pitching
  • Left field
  • Relief pitching
  • Third base
  • Second base

The Orioles have lots of depth but I still believe the priority has to be, and will be, pitching.

Adding more offense - regardless of position 8-)
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #26 by ofahn » November 4th, 2012, 8:56 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:They are 2 totally different players, always have been and always will.


Please explain why you believe that.
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #27 by ofahn » November 4th, 2012, 8:58 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:fill the hole at 2nd base with a CAPABLE 2nd baseman


Where do you see us finding this capable 2B without taking on a bad contract by giving up good talent?

Seafordeagles wrote:I also noticed how you are big on players not playing there natural position and moving to other positions.


Just a reminder that I said this

ofahn wrote:IMO the best long term solution at 2B is finding a prospect and developing him; or trading for a YOUNG 2B. Signing or trading for an over aged over priced player is not in our best interests.
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #28 by Seafordeagles » November 4th, 2012, 11:00 pm

ofahn wrote:
Where do you see us finding this capable 2B without taking on a bad contract by giving up good talent?



Just a reminder that I said this



Wow, 30 years old is now over aged, amazing...
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #29 by ofahn » November 5th, 2012, 10:22 am

Seafordeagles wrote:
Wow, 30 years old is now over aged, amazing...


First, he'll be playing in his age 31 season next year. Second, there's FIVE MORE YEARS on his contract. Third, his production took a significant dip last year and his K/BB ratio went upside down. At his age and position those are huge, waving, red flags. Since steroids and HGH have been curtailed (but not eliminated) players aren't as productive after 30. Positions like 2B, SS, and C seem to be more susceptible to that.

Somehow, my POV seems to have offended you, but my concerns are based on facts.
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Re: Home page poll: The Orioles' #1 Off-Season Priority is...

PostPost #30 by Seafordeagles » November 5th, 2012, 10:59 am

ofahn wrote:
First, he'll be playing in his age 31 season next year. Second, there's FIVE MORE YEARS on his contract. Third, his production took a significant dip last year and his K/BB ratio went upside down. At his age and position those are huge, waving, red flags. Since steroids and HGH have been curtailed (but not eliminated) players aren't as productive after 30. Positions like 2B, SS, and C seem to be more susceptible to that.

Somehow, my POV seems to have offended you, but my concerns are based on facts.


Trust me you haven't offended me. It's obvious if the Orioles find & develop a 2nd baseman as you propose he's not going to be ready any time soon. You also propose trading for a YOUNG 2nd baseman but teams just don't trade "talented" players when they are under "team control" at a low salary.

You either have to bite the bullet for a overpaid and older play like Kinsler or go with who you have and that looks like Casilla. Right now you haven't offered a viable solution.
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