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Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #31 by ofahn » October 17th, 2012, 12:39 pm

DashingDave314 wrote:Matusz, he showed enough out of the pen to make me think at the very least, he's a very serviceable reliever.


What impressed me about Matusz is, that for a supposed LH specialist, he showed great numbers against RH hitters. It appears that he has his confidence back and has learned to think less and trust his stuff more. I still see him as a potential #2 SP going forward.

Arrieta, not so much...........
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #32 by DashingDave314 » October 17th, 2012, 12:46 pm

ofahn wrote:
What impressed me about Matusz is, that for a supposed LH specialist, he showed great numbers against RH hitters. It appears that he has his confidence back and has learned to think less and trust his stuff more. I still see him as a potential #2 SP going forward.

Arrieta, not so much...........


If Matusz can pitch in the rotation with the same level of confidence that he showed in the bullpen, he'll be amazing. Arrieta, I have absolutely zero confidence in him right now.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #33 by ofahn » October 17th, 2012, 12:54 pm

DashingDave314 wrote:If Matusz can pitch in the rotation with the same level of confidence that he showed in the bullpen, he'll be amazing.


I believe that an ENTIRE winter of building himself with Brady Anderson and some additional time with Rick Peterson at AAA next year and we'll finally get the pitcher we thought we drafting.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #34 by A_K » October 17th, 2012, 1:43 pm

Arrieta and Matusz both established their floors this season; in an absolute worst case scenario, they'll both be lights out relievers at the back of a contending team's bullpen. We didn't draft and pay either of them for their ability to anchor the back end of a bullpen, but if they continue to struggle as starters it's a nice consolation gift. It also makes them more valuable as trade chips, as other teams can now see them as young starters with the potential to continue developing, or dynamic relievers as is.

The pessimism around Arrieta on this board is dumbfounding to me. He's good. We don't know if he can be a solid starter; we already know that he's a solid reliever.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #35 by ofahn » October 17th, 2012, 1:56 pm

A_K wrote:The pessimism around Arrieta on this board is dumbfounding to me.


If I'm pessimistic it's that he'll ever learn to trust his stuff. He has the ability to pitch in any situation in any game, but it seems like when he gets in a jam he begins to doubt himself; and there's no reason to. IMO he has the ability to be a #2 SP on a contending team. I just wonder when he'll finally believe that, too.

Mark me down as DISAPPOINTED.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #36 by Jordan Tuwiner » October 17th, 2012, 5:01 pm

A_K wrote:The pessimism around Arrieta on this board is dumbfounding to me. He's good. We don't know if he can be a solid starter; we already know that he's a solid reliever.

I've always really liked his stuff.

It's amazing how different they both look in the bullpen. As I've said before I think it really did them well pitching with lots of success. We'll see how it translates next year but success in the bullpen has greatly benefited other pitchers before.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #37 by Old Sneakers » October 17th, 2012, 11:01 pm

I think we've all formed opinions on this issue. To me if I had to predict one of them winning 12 games as a starter, I would quickly pick Arrieta. His fastball is just better IMO. He's also turned in some brilliant starts in the past. What happened and why he derailed is a mystery to me. I just do not think it is the elbow surgery from a year ago.

With Matusz, the allure is that he's a lefty. He doesn't have a great fastball and I think his game is more about deception. That is just an amateur opinion. I think he's always going to struggle with his pitch counts.

Could they both be solid starters? Yes, absolutely. I would love to see both of these guys live up to their potential in Baltimore. My confidence in any pitching coach turning one or both around though is waning. Also I am of the opinion that these young men becoming relievers is hardly a consolation prize.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #38 by rudyrooster » October 18th, 2012, 12:16 am

O's aren't gonna sign a 15 to 20 million dollar FA pitcher. It just ain't gonna happen. I predict they will sign Joe Saunders at a "hometown discount" (if such a thing even still exists), or look for another Jason Hammel type trade this winter. Then again it wouldn't surprise me to see them go into spring training without making either one of those deals. My sense is they feel they have enough arms to squeeze out a starting five with still plenty of depth available at Norfolk...
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #39 by ofahn » October 18th, 2012, 6:59 am

Old Sneakers wrote:He doesn't have a great fastball and I think his game is more about deception.


Great FBs are nice, but a good SP doesn't need one to be a big winner. If you have off speed pitches that look like a FB coming out of the pitcher's hand, then any FB looks like it's 10MPH faster than it really is. As the season progressed I watched Matusz learn how to do exactly that. His 92 MPH FB must have looked like 100 because his CB and change up were so good.

Matusz has great stuff. He just needs to trust it.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #40 by Jordan Tuwiner » October 18th, 2012, 8:37 am

rudyrooster wrote:O's aren't gonna sign a 15 to 20 million dollar FA pitcher. It just ain't gonna happen. I predict they will sign Joe Saunders at a "hometown discount" (if such a thing even still exists), or look for another Jason Hammel type trade this winter. Then again it wouldn't surprise me to see them go into spring training without making either one of those deals. My sense is they feel they have enough arms to squeeze out a starting five with still plenty of depth available at Norfolk...

It's amazing that Duquette, in just one year, has built the depth for that. I think it really all depends on how he feels about Arrieta and Matusz as starters.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #41 by ofahn » October 18th, 2012, 9:28 am

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:It's amazing that Duquette, in just one year, has built the depth for that. I think it really all depends on how he feels about Arrieta and Matusz as starters.


I could see them re signing Saunders as insurance. That would allow Matusz, Arrieta, and Britton to start the year in AAA and continue their development. I'm confident that Matusz will be a solid SP. I just wish I could be as confident about Arrieta.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #42 by A_K » October 18th, 2012, 5:01 pm

Duquette seems to really trust his ability to find veteran starters who can provide solid but unspectacular results. I'd personally bet against his ability to sustain his current success rate in that respect, but that's besides the point. If I'm right about his trust in his ability to identify solid veteran starters, trading Matusz or Arrieta or both could certainly provide an opportunity to upgrade either 3B or 2B.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #43 by Jordan Tuwiner » October 19th, 2012, 12:47 am

A_K wrote:Duquette seems to really trust his ability to find veteran starters who can provide solid but unspectacular results. I'd personally bet against his ability to sustain his current success rate in that respect, but that's besides the point. If I'm right about his trust in his ability to identify solid veteran starters, trading Matusz or Arrieta or both could certainly provide an opportunity to upgrade either 3B or 2B.

I think we will definitely see a trade of some of the pitching depth this off-season.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #44 by Old Sneakers » October 19th, 2012, 3:03 am

Just to clarify, I do not think the team is going to make a strong push for Greinke either. I would welcome that, but I agree that developing pitching is the way to go. Pitching depth has been great for us in 2012. But I wouldnt bet on Chen or Gonzalez to duplicate what they did this past year. I think we continue to try and upgrade the arms while keeping a staple of depth.

I think the team has to do a better job of creating players like former Oriole Brad Bergesen. That guy was no star, but he was a sound minor league option for a year and a half that really helped the club. That Depth we read about really does matter and we need more of it from within.
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Re: Duquette: "We need to continue to look for a No. 1 starter"

PostPost #45 by ofahn » October 19th, 2012, 8:06 am

Old Sneakers wrote:I do not think the team is going to make a strong push for Greinke either. I would welcome that


I'm curious as to why you feel that way. Buying Greinke would expend a tremendous amount of the available payroll for pitcher that's, IMO, really no better than several that we already have.

I don't have a problem spending big dollars on a really good pitcher for ONE year and then wait for our pitching to develop. I have a problem with making a long term commitment to that pitcher when we might be able to fill his role from within.
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