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"Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #16 by ofahn » October 10th, 2012, 10:20 am

LA Detective wrote:Sign McLouth..even if it is for 2 years...He is a Gold Glover and hits at the top of the order and plays the game right in every way.


If he would be willing to sign for a contract a little north of Betemit's then I think he would be a great addition to the team. He could fill Chavez's role, but with more talent.
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #17 by ofahn » October 10th, 2012, 10:22 am

osforlife wrote:Resign Rick Petersen.


IMO if we intend to over pay ANYONE this winter it should be this guy.
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #18 by ofahn » October 10th, 2012, 10:35 am

osforlife wrote:Sign quality rotation arm such as Jackson, Lohse, Marcum, McCarthy, Sanchez, Santana


Jackson - with all due respect NO, NO, H@LL NO. He wants a multi year contract and we can't afford to waste our limited resources on a pitcher like Edwin Jackson.
Lohse - he wants a multi year contract and we can't afford to waste our limited resources on a pitcher that is no better than what we all ready have in our system.
Marcum - see Lohse.
McCarthy - worth a one year deal with a low base and incentives IF he's ready medically.
Sanchez - minor league deal.
Santana - worth a one year deal with a low base and BIG incentives. Could be the real find in the off season market.

Here's an alternative suggestion. Suppose DD can make a deal with the White Sox to trade Peavy and 2M to us for our competitive balance pick instead of declining his option? He would give us our first legitimate TOR SP since Mussina left town on the Yankee Monet Express. We would have him with a one year commitment supported by a solid defense and maybe the best C in baseball. He would probably have a very good year. That, along with the success of our other pitchers, would show the rest of the league that they could be a winner in Baltimore. It would make it SO much easier to convince good pitchers to come here.

If we decide he wants too much money to stay after next season we would get a first round drat pick for him so the only real cost for his services would be his 2013 salary.
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #19 by Matt P » October 10th, 2012, 1:52 pm

ofahn wrote:
IMO Tampa is a perfect example of a team that came back to us. Carlos Pena and Luke Scott underperformed, which forced Joe Maddon to use players with good bats and bad gloves. Consequently, their defense was the worst it had been in years. If they decide to use David Price as trade bait this winter they could land a Billy Butler and another piece from the Royals. Combine him with Alfonso Soriano and they will have improved by at least five games next year.

IF they had those same five games next year we would be at home right now.

I don't know that Carlos Pena underperformed though. His stats weren't that far off his 2010 totals with Tampa Bay that one would expect him to have a huge bounceback season next year. Don't forget that he's 34 years old now and this is the time where people start to see a decline.

Luke Scott's stats also weren't that far off the small sample size of 64 games with the O's in 2011. It's very possible he is declining as well as he is also 34 years old now.

I believe both signed 1 year deals though didn't they? No telling if they will be back or not next season.
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #20 by Matt P » October 10th, 2012, 1:54 pm

osforlife wrote:Now that Dectective has brought it up, I can't help myself from thinking about the offseason. Goals:
1. Resign Rick Petersen. If I am correct, he is only on a one year deal. The work he has done with Tillman alone is enough to grant him another contract. Next year, he gets the projects of Arrieta, Matusz, Britton, and Bundy.
2. Get Chris Davis playing first base again. He was supposed to be an above-average defender. If he can play first well, that will delete the need for Mark Reynolds, which will give us an extra 10.5mil to work with.
3. Sign a righty infielder bat such as Jeff Baker or Jeff Keppinger to compliment lefties Flaherty and Davis.
4. Sign quality rotation arm such as Jackson, Lohse, Marcum, McCarthy, Sanchez, Santana to give us a rotation of Hammel, Chen, Tillman, Gonzalez, FA with Arrieta, Matusz, Britton, and Bundy in AAA and with Wada and S.Johnson in long relief. Hunter's days as a starter are done.
I don't see a need to resign McLouth with Hoes waiting in the wings. He's ready. This was just a dry run. I might have missed some things or not thought through a goal. Its cruel that I can't stop looking forward to the offseason when we are in the postseason.

I disagree on the Hoes part. I'll be very surprised if he can come close to making as big an impact as McLouth has made both defensively and offensively.
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #21 by ofahn » October 10th, 2012, 3:38 pm

Matt P wrote:I believe both signed 1 year deals though didn't they? No telling if they will be back or not next season.


You're correct. I would expect Tampa to look for improvements over both of them.
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #22 by osforlife » October 10th, 2012, 7:44 pm

Matt P wrote:I disagree on the Hoes part. I'll be very surprised if he can come close to making as big an impact as McLouth has made both defensively and offensively.

I'd be fine with resigning McLouth. He's a good all-around player. However, I have a gut feeling somebody will overpay to sign him after 1/3 season of quality baseball. I have my doubts he can keep this up too. He hasn't been good since '09. Hoes will play average defense, hit for average probably, and steal bases. He's ready, so why not let him play for a fraction of what McLouth will be getting?
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #23 by osforlife » October 10th, 2012, 7:57 pm

ofahn wrote:
Jackson - with all due respect NO, NO, H@LL NO. He wants a multi year contract and we can't afford to waste our limited resources on a pitcher like Edwin Jackson.
Lohse - he wants a multi year contract and we can't afford to waste our limited resources on a pitcher that is no better than what we all ready have in our system.
Marcum - see Lohse.
McCarthy - worth a one year deal with a low base and incentives IF he's ready medically.
Sanchez - minor league deal.
Santana - worth a one year deal with a low base and BIG incentives. Could be the real find in the off season market.

Jackson: Not sure why you are so down on Jackson. He's a quality pitcher. Running into struggles at a bad time though.
Lohse: I'd seriously like to see any of our starting pitchers have the kinds of year Lohse has had the past two years. How do you say waste resources on a pitcher who threw over 200 innings with less than a 3.00 ERA?
Marcum: We don't have 5 starting pitchers better than Marcum. And what do you even mean "no better than what we already have in the system? You've said yourself that Britton, Arrieta, Matusz, and Bundy should start the year in AAA. If they need to start in AAA, they are no where near the caliber of Marcum. And if we don't have 5 starting pitchers better than him, how is he no better than what we already have in the system?
McCarthy: He'll get at least a one year deal with high incentives. Great pitcher; needs to stay healthy.
Sanchez: Good luck finding a 28 year old starting pitcher who has completed the last 4 years with an ERA of under 4 to a minor league deal.
Santana: agreed.
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #24 by Matt P » October 10th, 2012, 10:33 pm

osforlife wrote:I'd be fine with resigning McLouth. He's a good all-around player. However, I have a gut feeling somebody will overpay to sign him after 1/3 season of quality baseball. I have my doubts he can keep this up too. He hasn't been good since '09. Hoes will play average defense, hit for average probably, and steal bases. He's ready, so why not let him play for a fraction of what McLouth will be getting?


Because there is a slim chance he is as good as McLouth.
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #25 by Matt P » October 10th, 2012, 10:35 pm

ofahn wrote:
Jackson - with all due respect NO, NO, H@LL NO. He wants a multi year contract and we can't afford to waste our limited resources on a pitcher like Edwin Jackson.
Lohse - he wants a multi year contract and we can't afford to waste our limited resources on a pitcher that is no better than what we all ready have in our system.
Marcum - see Lohse.
McCarthy - worth a one year deal with a low base and incentives IF he's ready medically.
Sanchez - minor league deal.
Santana - worth a one year deal with a low base and BIG incentives. Could be the real find in the off season market.

Here's an alternative suggestion. Suppose DD can make a deal with the White Sox to trade Peavy and 2M to us for our competitive balance pick instead of declining his option? He would give us our first legitimate TOR SP since Mussina left town on the Yankee Monet Express. We would have him with a one year commitment supported by a solid defense and maybe the best C in baseball. He would probably have a very good year. That, along with the success of our other pitchers, would show the rest of the league that they could be a winner in Baltimore. It would make it SO much easier to convince good pitchers to come here.

If we decide he wants too much money to stay after next season we would get a first round drat pick for him so the only real cost for his services would be his 2013 salary.

I thought the new CBA eliminates draft compensation for traded players with 1 year or less remaining on their contract?
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #26 by ofahn » October 11th, 2012, 12:38 pm

osforlife wrote:Jackson: Not sure why you are so down on Jackson. He's a quality pitcher. Running into struggles at a bad time though.


Enough said. I have never seen him as a big game pitcher and he has shown the baseball world why since the beginning of September. I would rather sign Hammel to the contract that Jackson wants and I'm a bit reluctant to do THAT because we have a lot of SP talent that is finally emerging. Making expensive long term commitments to slightly above league average SPs just doesn't make sense to me; particularly when we have limited payroll room.

Consider this: Jackson made a must win start AT HOME yesterday and got smoked. Gonzalez made a must win start AT YANKEE STADIUM and threw a masterpiece. Why sign Jackson when we already have better?
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #27 by ofahn » October 11th, 2012, 12:40 pm

osforlife wrote:Lohse: I'd seriously like to see any of our starting pitchers have the kinds of year Lohse has had the past two years. How do you say waste resources on a pitcher who threw over 200 innings with less than a 3.00 ERA?


Again, I would rather sign Hammel to the contract that Lohse wants and I'm reluctant to do that for the same reasons as Jackson, although I will admit that I see Lohse as a better pitcher than Jackson.
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #28 by ofahn » October 11th, 2012, 12:41 pm

osforlife wrote:We don't have 5 starting pitchers better than Marcum.


I disagree with that.

osforlife wrote:You've said yourself that Britton, Arrieta, Matusz, and Bundy should start the year in AAA. If they need to start in AAA, they are no where near the caliber of Marcum. And if we don't have 5 starting pitchers better than him, how is he no better than what we already have in the system?


The reason I want them to start the year in AAA working with Peterson is that I want them to be at their best when the come back to the ML. I see all four of them as having a GREAT DEAL MORE TALENT than Shawn Marcum and clearly they are much younger and less expensive.
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #29 by ofahn » October 11th, 2012, 1:15 pm

osforlife wrote:Sanchez: Good luck finding a 28 year old starting pitcher who has completed the last 4 years with an ERA of under 4 to a minor league deal.


I thought you were referring to JONATHON Sanchez, not ANIBEL. Anibel is a good pitcher, but I don't see him as being worth a long term contract at market rate.

What really concerns me is that we would make big investments in aging SPs that are starting the down slide of their careers. If our core hitters don't take the next step and learn how to manufacture runs we will have committed the majority of our available payroll to pitchers that might not be trade able for teams that can't win more than 85 games. If we DON'T gamble on these "free" agent pitchers and find out that we need to replace some of the players in the three through six holes in the lineup we will have the money to do it.

Besides, I just don't anyone on your list that, IMO, CLEARLY has more talent than what we are developing now.
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Re: "Best move of the year: Calling up Machado"

PostPost #30 by ofahn » October 11th, 2012, 1:19 pm

Matt P wrote:I thought the new CBA eliminates draft compensation for traded players with 1 year or less remaining on their contract?


I found this on ESPN. I believe it affirms my understanding that a team is eligible for compensation (with a qualifying offer) if the player is with them the entire year.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/72702 ... storic-one

The only players who can bring any sort of compensation are players who spent the entire season with one club.
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