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Chris Davis

Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #16 by ofahn » October 9th, 2012, 3:46 pm

Matt P wrote:How can you be so certain there is a next step for them? It is very possible that Davis and Jones reached their peaks this year.


If that's the case I am concerned about our long term results.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #17 by LA Detective » October 9th, 2012, 5:46 pm

I thnk we are seeing the real Davis the 2nd half of the year. I think his over-all numbers will go up due to less huge slumps. I think he is showing he is a .285+ 35hr + guy...By now and ecspecially with the playoffs he has proved he can make adjustments.

Weiters will hit more. He puts so much in the other aspects of the game it takes away from his hitting. I still think he will reach 30hrs a couple of times

cant ask to much more over a season for Jones...I think he will go over 100rbis a few times starting next year. Would like to see him get hot in the playoffs this year though...

Reynolds is around .200 since his Yankee streak in Sept. I hate to say it but the numbers you see now probably wont change much..He doesnt look like he is going to get back to 35hr.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #18 by ofahn » October 9th, 2012, 6:03 pm

LA Detective wrote:I thnk we are seeing the real Davis the 2nd half of the year.


I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I hope you're wrong. What I think we have seen is Chris Davis 3.0. What I WANT to see is Chris Davis 4.0. That's the version that ignores the pitches he can't handle and waits for the ones he can. THAT Chris Davis can be a MONSTER in a lineup. IMO he has the kind of power you see very rarely. Mark McGwire power. Mickey Mantle power. Frank Robinson power. He just needs to apply it to the pitches he can square up on.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #19 by Jordan Tuwiner » October 9th, 2012, 6:23 pm

Matt P wrote:How can you be so certain there is a next step for them? It is very possible that Davis and Jones reached their peaks this year.

I think there is a next step for Davis. Jones, I am not sure. Jones hasn't improved much with low and away breaking balls. I don't really see him doing so in the future.

This was Davis's first year in the majors full time. I think there is room for improvement with him.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #20 by LA Detective » October 9th, 2012, 6:24 pm

I hope your right...I hope he makes that step to 45-50hr status...I really enjoy watching him play...at worst the guy we have been watching the last two months is pretty good. I think if you could see his bb/k split get to about 80/140 he will get there..
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #21 by A_K » October 9th, 2012, 7:39 pm

There's hoping a player continues to develop (something we all might as well do for every player in the system, because... why not?), and then there's looking at a player's peripheral statistics to see if his career track and his general process indicates that taking another step is likely. Looking at Davis, I don't see much in the way of a good argument that he's going to increase his walks or decrease his strikeouts, and those are the two things that need to happen for him to take a step forward. What's more, there's little reason to expect him to ever become an even average defender at 1B or in the OF, which means he'll need to become a well above average hitter to provide substantial value to a team-- which once again points back to whether he can decrease his strikeouts or increase his walks.

I'm thinking he's a finished product at this point. That's not necessarily the worst thing in the world: players worth 2 wins are useful pieces. But they aren't the guys who carry you to the playoffs on a yearly basis.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #22 by Old Sneakers » October 10th, 2012, 1:05 am

LA Detective wrote:...cant ask to much more over a season for Jones...I think he will go over 100rbis a few times starting next year. Would like to see him get hot in the playoffs this year though...


Team will have to have a legit lead off hitter for that to happen. Something the team simply does not have.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #23 by ofahn » October 10th, 2012, 9:54 am

I thought that Nick handled the job very well even if he wasn't in the traditional mold.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #24 by ofahn » October 10th, 2012, 9:59 am

A_K wrote:There's hoping a player continues to develop (something we all might as well do for every player in the system, because... why not?), and then there's looking at a player's peripheral statistics to see if his career track and his general process indicates that taking another step is likely. Looking at Davis, I don't see much in the way of a good argument that he's going to increase his walks or decrease his strikeouts, and those are the two things that need to happen for him to take a step forward. What's more, there's little reason to expect him to ever become an even average defender at 1B or in the OF, which means he'll need to become a well above average hitter to provide substantial value to a team-- which once again points back to whether he can decrease his strikeouts or increase his walks.

I'm thinking he's a finished product at this point. That's not necessarily the worst thing in the world: players worth 2 wins are useful pieces. But they aren't the guys who carry you to the playoffs on a yearly basis.


Jones has a lot more ABs than Davis and has continued to improve almost every part of his game except his weakness for low outside pitches. IMO Davis and Jones have the best chance of taking big steps forward at the plate because they don't have to change anything with their swing, they just have to improve their self discipline and ignore the pitches they can't handle.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #25 by Matt P » October 10th, 2012, 1:47 pm

ofahn wrote:
If that's the case I am concerned about our long term results.


Not me. I'll gladly take .270/.326/.501 from Davis going forward. Nobody expected him to hit like this.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #26 by ofahn » October 10th, 2012, 3:48 pm

Matt P wrote:
Not me. I'll gladly take .270/.326/.501 from Davis going forward. Nobody expected him to hit like this.


We have too many hitters that fall into the category of all or nothing. The HR is a fickle b@t@h. If they don't come at just the right time you can end up on the wrong side of too many close games. I would like to see our three through six hitters improve their games so they add the ability to manufacture runs, too.

A perfect example is the ball that Reynolds pulled through the right side of the infield the other night to win the game. I'll buy lunch for anyone that can point out FIVE other occasions where he did that this year WITH THE GAME ON THE LINE. I really give him credit for that because it's not part of his game at this point, but it could be if he wanted it to.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #27 by A_K » October 10th, 2012, 4:08 pm

ofahn wrote: IMO Davis and Jones have the best chance of taking big steps forward at the plate because they don't have to change anything with their swing, they just have to improve their self discipline and ignore the pitches they can't handle.


Where you and I differ is in how we interpret the inability to lay off bad pitches. You see it as a lack of discipline. If it's a lack of discipline, it can be solved by a renewed emphasis on the virtue of patience, film study, repeated admonitions not to go after those pitches, self-inflicted lashings, water torture, etc.

On the other hand, if plate discipline in general and pitch recognition specifically are distinct skills, as opposed to matters of discipline, than they're much harder to change over the course of an offseason. I see them as skills, not matters of patience. Jones and Davis can't coach themselves into laying off particular pitches any more than they could improve their lateral agility to play shortstop.

That's not to say they can't make some marginal improvements. I'm sure they can alter things some. But just as Adam Jones has a distinct skill of turning on an inside fastball to deposit it into the left field seats, he also has a distinct anti-skill that keeps him from identifying a low and away slider in enough time to lay off of it.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #28 by Matt P » October 10th, 2012, 4:17 pm

ofahn wrote:
We have too many hitters that fall into the category of all or nothing. The HR is a fickle b@t@h. If they don't come at just the right time you can end up on the wrong side of too many close games. I would like to see our three through six hitters improve their games so they add the ability to manufacture runs, too.

A perfect example is the ball that Reynolds pulled through the right side of the infield the other night to win the game. I'll buy lunch for anyone that can point out FIVE other occasions where he did that this year WITH THE GAME ON THE LINE. I really give him credit for that because it's not part of his game at this point, but it could be if he wanted it to.

I agree but we have what we have. It's why I really wanted them to trade for Chase Headley to give them a legitimate #3 hitter in the lineup.
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Re: Chris Davis

PostPost #29 by ofahn » October 10th, 2012, 4:21 pm

A_K wrote:
Where you and I differ is in how we interpret the inability to lay off bad pitches. You see it as a lack of discipline. If it's a lack of discipline, it can be solved by a renewed emphasis on the virtue of patience, film study, repeated admonitions not to go after those pitches, self-inflicted lashings, water torture, etc.

On the other hand, if plate discipline in general and pitch recognition specifically are distinct skills, as opposed to matters of discipline, than they're much harder to change over the course of an offseason. I see them as skills, not matters of patience. Jones and Davis can't coach themselves into laying off particular pitches any more than they could improve their lateral agility to play shortstop.

That's not to say they can't make some marginal improvements. I'm sure they can alter things some. But just as Adam Jones has a distinct skill of turning on an inside fastball to deposit it into the left field seats, he also has a distinct anti-skill that keeps him from identifying a low and away slider in enough time to lay off of it.


Everything you said makes sense; however, I know from personal experience that you can discipline yourself to lay off of certain pitches. I am RH but I couldn't hit a pitch in the same location as Davis. After two years of futility and frustration I finally softened my hard head and asked my coach for advice. He spent hours throwing me pitches all over the plate from behind a screen at about forty feet. It gave me LESS reaction time than I would have had in a game. If I swung at a low inside pitch I did push ups. It took me awhile but I learned to lay off of those pitches and started getting them center cut and farther outside where I could really square up on them.

I continued to do push ups as an adult when I would swing at an inside pitch that a friend would throw me when we were just having fun.

P.S. I laughed my ASS off when I saw the first Major League movie.
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