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Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #31 by LA Detective » October 6th, 2012, 3:45 pm

I know Hamilton is struggling but WOW...talk about attacking a hitter..HUGE moment for Matusz...He is going to be one of the most important players in the Yankee Series with all their lefties and switch hitters..He could pitch up to 5 innings in this series..all very important ones and late in the game too...
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #32 by Ampontan » October 6th, 2012, 9:36 pm

ofahn wrote: At this point we could have STEVE Johnson and Wada as long men and JIM Johnson, Strop, Hunter, O'Day, and Patton. THtey constitute heat, deception, and ground balls. Stu Pomerantz would be at AAA along with some other veteran minor leaguers that might do well in a relief role.


I don't expect to see Wada until the All-Star break, maybe. His surgery was in May, wasn't it? And I wouldn't be surprised if Pomeranz starts the year with the ML club.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #33 by ofahn » October 9th, 2012, 12:08 pm

Ampontan wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Pomeranz starts the year with the ML club.


Even though he's RH he would seem to be the logical choice because of his ability to go multi innings. If he can keep his personal demons at bay he'll be quite a find.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #34 by ofahn » October 9th, 2012, 12:12 pm

What is really impressing me the most about Matusz is his new found ability to get RH batters out. I believe that Tex was the first to get a hit off of him in a LONG time.

I hope Matusz will accept that his stuff IS good enough to get everyone out and stop over thing the process. I would start him at AAA with Peterson again next year to finish his development and allow him to become the solid #2 SP we all thought he would be when he was drafted.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #35 by Matt P » October 9th, 2012, 1:32 pm

Matusz said the only time he has been nervous so far out of the bullpen was on the intentional walk to Cano haha.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #36 by LA Detective » October 9th, 2012, 5:54 pm

When this post first started I really thought it was going to be Arrieta that would be doing what Matusz is now. His last couple starts at AAA were dominating with alot of Ks. I thought the move to the pen would have him consistantly at 95-97 with the FB and the right mixture of his sharp breaking stuff. He was disappointing...I still wouldnt give up on him cuz sometimes his stuff really is awesome. I thought Matusz would improve some but wow.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #37 by ofahn » October 9th, 2012, 6:04 pm

LA Detective wrote:When this post first started I really thought it was going to be Arrieta that would be doing what Matusz is now. His last couple starts at AAA were dominating with alot of Ks. I thought the move to the pen would have him consistantly at 95-97 with the FB and the right mixture of his sharp breaking stuff. He was disappointing...I still wouldnt give up on him cuz sometimes his stuff really is awesome. I thought Matusz would improve some but wow.


I had them both labeled as head cases. Matusz just seems to be listening to the good advice he's getting. Jake still has some learning to do..................
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #38 by osforlife » October 9th, 2012, 6:42 pm

Arrieta looked really good stuff wise out out of the pen. 1.050 WHIP, 20 SO in 13.1 Innings, .283 OBP against. Got into a little trouble with the homerun ball but with half a year or more with Rick Petersen, he could become something special.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #39 by A_K » October 9th, 2012, 7:32 pm

Arrieta was fantastic out of the pen. I'd much rather have him on the postseason roster than Ayala. Going into next year, if Arrieta doesn't find his way into the opening day rotation, I'd once again much rather have him as one of our seven relievers than Ayala. He's got great stuff and his peripherals all season supported the conclusion that his results were unsustainably poor given the way he was pitching (this conclusion was often simplified as "he's getting unlucky." That's not exactly what was happening, but it's an understandable shorthand for what was really going on).
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #40 by ofahn » October 10th, 2012, 10:10 am

A_K wrote:Arrieta was fantastic out of the pen. I'd much rather have him on the postseason roster than Ayala. Going into next year, if Arrieta doesn't find his way into the opening day rotation, I'd once again much rather have him as one of our seven relievers than Ayala. He's got great stuff and his peripherals all season supported the conclusion that his results were unsustainably poor given the way he was pitching (this conclusion was often simplified as "he's getting unlucky." That's not exactly what was happening, but it's an understandable shorthand for what was really going on).


I don't see a place for Ayala in the bullpen next season, but I also don't see a place for Arrieta coming out of ST either.

Right now, based on their performance this year, my bullpen would be STEVE Johnson and Wada (history in Japan) as long men and JIM Johnson, Strop, Hunter, O'Day, and Patton. They constitute heat, deception, and ground balls. Stu Pomerantz would be my choice to cover for Wada if he isn't ready, otherwise he would wait at AAA along with some other veteran minor leaguers that might do well in a relief role.

I'd like to see Matusz, Arrieta, Britton, and Bundy ALL start next year in AAA to put the finish on their skills. Remember, all of these guys BUT Bundy came through a dysfunctional developmental system; and Bundy only had ONE year of proper instruction. We wouldn't have to use any of those guys in the bullpen in April.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #41 by Matt P » October 10th, 2012, 1:48 pm

A_K wrote:Arrieta was fantastic out of the pen. I'd much rather have him on the postseason roster than Ayala. Going into next year, if Arrieta doesn't find his way into the opening day rotation, I'd once again much rather have him as one of our seven relievers than Ayala. He's got great stuff and his peripherals all season supported the conclusion that his results were unsustainably poor given the way he was pitching (this conclusion was often simplified as "he's getting unlucky." That's not exactly what was happening, but it's an understandable shorthand for what was really going on).


His results were sustainably poor because he couldn't repeat his mechanics and he would break down mentally at the first sign of trouble.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #42 by birdwatcher55 » October 10th, 2012, 2:37 pm

I would not, under any circumstances, sub Arrieta for Ayala. Just my two cents 8-)
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #43 by Matt P » October 10th, 2012, 4:12 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:I would not, under any circumstances, sub Arrieta for Ayala. Just my two cents 8-)


Same. Ayala has let a lot of inherited runners score but overall he has been good. You can't ask for much more out of a middle reliever IMO.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #44 by A_K » October 10th, 2012, 4:12 pm

Matt P wrote:His results were sustainably poor because he couldn't repeat his mechanics and he would break down mentally at the first sign of trouble.


Not being able to repeat his mechanics is a symptom of what made his results unsustainably bad, not a cause of them. His mechanics would break down and he'd get beat, or he'd get them under control and he'd dominate. The peripheral results suggest he'd eventually get the mechanics down. The "unluckiness" that was discussed so much on this board was always a synonym for "inconsistent mechanics."

As far as breaking down mentally, that's just unverifiable post hoc analysis.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #45 by Matt P » October 10th, 2012, 4:18 pm

A_K wrote:
Not being able to repeat his mechanics is a symptom of what made his results unsustainably bad, not a cause of them. His mechanics would break down and he'd get beat, or he'd get them under control and he'd dominate. The peripheral results suggest he'd eventually get the mechanics down. The "unluckiness" that was discussed so much on this board was always a synonym for "inconsistent mechanics."

As far as breaking down mentally, that's just unverifiable post hoc analysis.


Maybe, but when he consistently crumbled at the first sign of trouble I would say it's a more than fair accusation.
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