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Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #16 by ofahn » August 10th, 2012, 1:02 pm

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:I do not have a link but I know that players on a 40-man roster who have ever touched the major leagues make about $70,000 per year.


Assuming you're right (and you usually are, dammit) then the 25K he's missing out on is a third of his salary this year. MAYBE half if the minimum is pro rated. I just feel for the kid.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #17 by Matt P » August 11th, 2012, 2:18 am

ofahn wrote:
No, I get that. It just bothers me to see a guy like Johnson work SO hard over EIGHT minor league seasons and give the team EXACTLY what it needs, when it really needed it, and then have to go back down. He didn't get a big signing bonus and has spent eight years living on McDonalds money. The 25K he'll miss out on with this move is probably about half of what he'll earn at AAA this year (although there may be a minimum salary for players on the 40 Man Roster. If anyone knows, would they please post it).

I'm just thinking with my heart instead of my head on this one.

Wow, you are really making something out of nothing on this one. Tillman pitched better than Johnson did in his debut this year and was then sent to AA to make his next start because he wasn't needed to pitch in the majors for at least 10 days. Nobody said anything about how awful it was for Tillman and how it was a slap in the face to him. Why would you keep Johnson on the roster when he won't pitch at all when you can have Socolovich on the roster to pitch out of the bullpen in mop up duty or if a starter comes out early.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #18 by ofahn » August 11th, 2012, 7:47 am

Matt P wrote:Wow, you are really making something out of nothing on this one. Tillman pitched better than Johnson did in his debut this year and was then sent to AA to make his next start because he wasn't needed to pitch in the majors for at least 10 days. Nobody said anything about how awful it was for Tillman and how it was a slap in the face to him. Why would you keep Johnson on the roster when he won't pitch at all when you can have Socolovich on the roster to pitch out of the bullpen in mop up duty or if a starter comes out early.


I just see the two situations as being substantially different.

Chris Tillman has a unique and enviable talent that he has taken for granted in his professional career. I don't think anyone can objectively say that he's worked HARD to be successful until this past year.

Johnson doesn't have a third of Tillman's natural talent yet he's worked his TAIL off to be a successful pitcher. Tillman's upside is probably a #2 on a good team. Johnson's is a #4, maybe. Tillman has been given every opportunity to make it in the ML. Johnson, not so much.

Tillman was a Second Round pick in the 2006 draft, and I would expect he got a bonus that reflected his high draft position. Johnson was selected in the 13th round of the previous draft and it's a safe bet that the Dodgers didn't throw money at him.

As fans we tend to look at players as nothing more than good and bad performances, and forget that they are human beings too. As I said several times I understand WHY we sent Johnson back to AAA, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #19 by Matt P » August 12th, 2012, 1:31 am

ofahn wrote:
I just see the two situations as being substantially different.

Chris Tillman has a unique and enviable talent that he has taken for granted in his professional career. I don't think anyone can objectively say that he's worked HARD to be successful until this past year.

Johnson doesn't have a third of Tillman's natural talent yet he's worked his TAIL off to be a successful pitcher. Tillman's upside is probably a #2 on a good team. Johnson's is a #4, maybe. Tillman has been given every opportunity to make it in the ML. Johnson, not so much.

Tillman was a Second Round pick in the 2006 draft, and I would expect he got a bonus that reflected his high draft position. Johnson was selected in the 13th round of the previous draft and it's a safe bet that the Dodgers didn't throw money at him.

As fans we tend to look at players as nothing more than good and bad performances, and forget that they are human beings too. As I said several times I understand WHY we sent Johnson back to AAA, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

You have no idea how hard Chris Tillman or Steve Johnson have worked. Why would you want Johnson to sit on the roster and turn the MLB roster into a 24 man roster until his next start when you can have Socolovich and have a full 25 man plus an extra arm in the bullpen. I've never seen someone this upset when someone was sent down knowing he would be back. I don't know how much money either got as a signing bonus but Steve Johnson was expected to go to college so I doubt he signed for slot.

Bad form attacking Tillman's work ethic when you have no idea how hard he did or didn't work in any off season.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #20 by ofahn » August 12th, 2012, 7:31 am

Matt P wrote:You have no idea how hard Chris Tillman or Steve Johnson have worked. Bad form attacking Tillman's work ethic when you have no idea how hard he did or didn't work in any off season.


The record on that is VERY clear and it shows that Tillman hasn't really accepted what it would take to convert his talent into success. I'm just glad the light went on for him over the last nine months or so.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #21 by ofahn » August 12th, 2012, 7:32 am

Matt P wrote:Why would you want Johnson to sit on the roster and turn the MLB roster into a 24 man roster until his next start when you can have Socolovich and have a full 25 man plus an extra arm in the bullpen.


I NEVER said I did. If you read what I wrote again you find that I was disappointed by the UNFAIRNESS of the process. Not that it wasn't necessary.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #22 by Matt P » August 12th, 2012, 10:10 pm

ofahn wrote:
The record on that is VERY clear and it shows that Tillman hasn't really accepted what it would take to convert his talent into success. I'm just glad the light went on for him over the last nine months or so.

He was going to API in recent off season before working with Brady last off season. When it was announced he was going there everyone was excited because API has a great reputation. You have no clue how hard he did or didn't work.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #23 by Matt P » August 12th, 2012, 10:10 pm

ofahn wrote:
I NEVER said I did. If you read what I wrote again you find that I was disappointed by the UNFAIRNESS of the process. Not that it wasn't necessary.

What unfairness? It's not unfair at all.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #24 by ofahn » August 13th, 2012, 6:29 am

Matt P wrote:It's not unfair at all.


Opinions vary.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #25 by ofahn » August 13th, 2012, 6:31 am

Matt P wrote:He was going to API in recent off season


Spending a COUPLE of weeks at the training facility does not qualify as "working hard". I understand that you're a big Tillman fan but I hope you can start to be objective about what he has done to this point.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #26 by osforlife » August 13th, 2012, 12:11 pm

ofahn wrote:
Spending a COUPLE of weeks at the training facility does not qualify as "working hard". I understand that you're a big Tillman fan but I hope you can start to be objective about what he has done to this point.

Matt P is right. We will never know how hard Tillman or anybody has worked unless they come up and say they worked with a professional trainer like Brady all Winter. But somebody with alot of talent like Chris could still be cranking 1000 pushups out every night. That's just an example but we will never know what kind of workouts pros do in their personal time.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #27 by osforlife » August 13th, 2012, 12:12 pm

Now Brittany Giroli said on O's Xtra that Steve Johnson cannot make the next start so somebody other than our starting 4 and Steve will have to make it right?
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #28 by ofahn » August 13th, 2012, 12:28 pm

osforlife wrote:omebody with alot of talent like Chris could still be cranking 1000 pushups out every night.


As a former HS pitcher and then a guy that actually used to do more than 300 push ups a day, every day, I can tell you that push ups are NOT the kind of exercise that will help a pitcher the most. Legs (squats and presses) and endurance running/biking) along with trunk (core) exercises are what adds to velocity along with protecting the shoulder (along with GOOD mechanics) in a proper delivery.

Nolan Ryan would throw 130 pitches and then go into the clubhouse and ride his stationary bike for 45 minutes. There's a cause and effect from that.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #29 by osforlife » August 13th, 2012, 12:42 pm

ofahn wrote:
As a former HS pitcher and then a guy that actually used to do more than 300 push ups a day, every day, I can tell you that push ups are NOT the kind of exercise that will help a pitcher the most. Legs (squats and presses) and endurance running/biking) along with trunk (core) exercises are what adds to velocity along with protecting the shoulder (along with GOOD mechanics) in a proper delivery.

Nolan Ryan would throw 130 pitches and then go into the clubhouse and ride his stationary bike for 45 minutes. There's a cause and effect from that.

Oh I know. I was just giving an example of maybe something a talented pitcher might do that would go unnoticed. I do 100 pushups, 100 situps, 100 bicep curls, 100 tricep curls, 100 squats, 100 calf raises, 500 fore-arm squeezes, and hit 100 baseballs off my tee everyday. And then I run about 4 miles everyday.(I run cross country for my school to be in shape for Spring Baseball) I would think a full body workout would be the best for me to get better at baseball.
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Re: Steve Johnson optioned to Norfolk

PostPost #30 by Matt P » August 13th, 2012, 12:42 pm

ofahn wrote:
Spending a COUPLE of weeks at the training facility does not qualify as "working hard". I understand that you're a big Tillman fan but I hope you can start to be objective about what he has done to this point.

I'm not really that big of a Tillman fan. I just don't get why so many people are so down on him. He said that the work he did at API, when he looks back on it, was more for injury prevention. Well, he never got injured so he obviously did what he was told to do. I don't know what he or Steve Johnson did or didn't do but I'm not claiming I did either.

osforlife was using pushups as an example to point out we have no clue what he does or doesn't do off the field. I don't think he really thinks he does 300 pushups every night.
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