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No longer buyers at the deadline

No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #1 by dan72 » July 17th, 2012, 10:26 am

I think the injury to Hammel combined with the continued lack of offense and defense no longer makes us buyers. Having listened to all the experts say that the next week to 10 days would determine what will happen at the deadline, we continue to head in the wrong direction.
I think the Hammel injury was the key. With Hammel and Chen you have 2 good starters to build around, now you don't even have that. Anyone that knows baseball will tell you that pitching and defense win championships. The 2012 Yankees will slug their way into the playoffs until they meet a Rangers or Angels team with superior pitching. Look at the Nationals and what they have done this year. ITS ALL ABOUT PITCHING, and we simply don't have the horses.
As a fan I feel like we do need to import pitching as we can not seem to really grow any quality pitching. Everyone know our short comings ie. true #4 hitter, 1B, 2B, 3B and starting pitching. IMO the need for starting pitching trumps all the other needs.
The answer to these needs is not coming from our farm system in the immediate future, so I ask this question. What will management do to address these needs?
I'm tired of seeing scrap heap players. Had the Orioles gotten off to a hot start by sweeping the Tigers, and a healthy Hammel that may have made us buyers. Thoughts?
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Re: No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #2 by birdwatcher55 » July 17th, 2012, 11:31 am

Come on over to my side. You have seen the light :D
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Re: No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #3 by docjj » July 17th, 2012, 11:48 am

I've argued this for weeks- long before Hammel's injury and the wheels coming of the wagon.

The problem is that I don't think we have a lot of talent that other teams are interested in. We have a bunch of unproven 4A types like Flaherty, Tolleson, we have a few has-beens like Thome, Nick Johnson, etc., and we have a bunch of "never-was" like Tillman, Hunter, Matusz, Arrieta. We also have a bunch of one-dimensional guys that are crippling the team like Reynolds.

If I'm a GM for another team, I look at the O's roster and farm system (except Bundy, Machado, and Schoop) cringe, shudder, and start looking at other teams to make a potential trade with....
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Re: No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #4 by birdwatcher55 » July 17th, 2012, 12:38 pm

Don't like Reynolds huh?? :lol:
Seriously, I think we have some trade pieces that would interest people like Hardy, Markakis, Davis, Stroop, JJ, Hamel etc. We haven't gotten to 46-43 by accident. 8-)
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Re: No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #5 by OsFan2110EutawStreet » July 17th, 2012, 2:08 pm

I agree with the "no longer buyers" sentiment. But I also don't think we fall under the category of sellers either. We're not 20 games out at this point like we were last year (well, 18.5, but we were in 5th place by 7.) Like birdwatcher said, we have some movable pieces but we don't want to mortgage next year for the next 5 years. I fully believe we have a chance to compete next year, and if it does mean trading for a pitcher or hitter who would be more than a 2-month rental, I say we do it and then continue the effort for next year into the offseason.
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Re: No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #6 by Shorebirdfan » July 17th, 2012, 2:28 pm

I'd be willing to move anything not in my long term plan. Think Hammel can be around a while as a #2 starter sandwiched between Bundy and Gausman? Fine, keep him. Think you can replace Johnson internally next season and get Michael Choice from the A's or Martin Perez from the Rangers for him? Do it.

Reynolds, Nick Johnson, Pearce, Tolleson, Flaherty, even Thome, probably don't get you much of a return, so if that's what you are looking for, getting something is going to cost you something that 1. Hurts, and 2. Says, sorry 2012 is over.
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Re: No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #7 by ofahn » July 17th, 2012, 2:34 pm

OsFan2110EutawStreet wrote: I fully believe we have a chance to compete next year, and if it does mean trading for a pitcher or hitter who would be more than a 2-month rental, I say we do it and then continue the effort for next year into the offseason.


I just wanted to point out that acquiring a player in July almost ALWAYS means paying a premium. Normally, if you want to trade for the future you do it in the offseason.
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Re: No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #8 by ofahn » July 17th, 2012, 2:52 pm

Shorebirdfan wrote:I'd be willing to move anything not in my long term plan.


Agreed.

Shorebirdfan wrote:Think you can replace Johnson internally next season? Do it.


Agreed, Although I would focus on pitching as a return. I believe we have solid prospects for the OF.

The only trade I'd be wiling to make this year is for Headley because he's a long term solution. That being said, I would decide what I thought he was worth and offer the Padres that and nothing more. The only real competition we would have for him is the Dodgers. If they use their limited resources (prospects) to go a different direction then the Padres would really only have us left to deal with or wait until the offseason to make a trade. They risk getting less of return to do so. Remember, they will need to move Headley to open a spot for Gyorko (sp?).

We can actually take the Dodgers out of the running for Headley by offering them JJ Hardy. They are looking for a SS and he would allow them to stabilize their IF without adding Headley, would give us two quality prospects, and would limit the Dodgers to one more big move. Probably for a SP. We could even let the Padres pick the two prospects.

I have never thought this team, as it is currently constructed, would be a SUCCESSFUL playoff team. By that I mean that we might get to the Wildcard Game but we wouldn't get beyond it. I would rather focus on getting rid of the deadwood and building for next year. IMO, just doing that would result in 85 or more wins.
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Re: No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #9 by Matt P » July 17th, 2012, 10:35 pm

The only players on the team that they should not be trying to trade are Jones, Wieters, Chen, Tillman, Strop, and Britton. Everyone else should be for sale to the highest bidder, now is the time to sell as it is a sellers market.
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Re: No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #10 by Rising O's » July 18th, 2012, 11:48 am

It is going to be a sellers market but does anyone actually want what we have? I've said this in the other threads, middle relievers will not bring much back. Johnson is the biggest piece and normally I would be happy to trade a closer for 2 B-B+ prospects but he's an Oriole and been healthy too, so its a tougher call as a fan. JJ Hardy has been awful but would be our best position player piece otherwise. We really don't have anything else to trade.
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Re: No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #11 by birdwatcher55 » July 18th, 2012, 2:59 pm

I would have no trouble dealing him for a Top 50 prospect if that is possible. I would deal Hardy as well for the right package of pitching prospects 8-)
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Re: No longer buyers at the deadline

PostPost #12 by birdwatcher55 » July 18th, 2012, 3:03 pm

Good post. I too concur that we need to move the good tradeable players and stock up with prospects. It would not surprise me if DD was very aggressive at Deadline, reshaping this club for 2013 and beyond 8-)
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