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Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

PostPost #1 by rjc3 » July 21st, 2011, 3:02 pm

As most of us know, a lot of the better relievers in the MLB are failed starters. Guys who don't have quite the control to start or lack the solid third offering.

The Orioles seem to have quite a few of these guys in their system and it is time to move them to the bullpen.

I say we move the following players into the bullpen and hope they can help the Orioles soon:

Oliver Drake, Chorye Spoone, Steve Johnson, Nathan Moreau, Nick Haughian, Rick Zagone, Tim Bascom

Nice to see they have already done this with Wynn Pelzer.
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Re: Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

PostPost #2 by A_K » July 21st, 2011, 3:27 pm

Too soon on Chris Tillman? Maybe working two innings at a time could bring that fastball back to 95 MPH.
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Re: Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

PostPost #3 by ofahn » July 21st, 2011, 6:13 pm

rjc3 wrote:As most of us know, a lot of the better relievers in the MLB are failed starters. Guys who don't have quite the control to start or lack the solid third offering.

The Orioles seem to have quite a few of these guys in their system and it is time to move them to the bullpen.

I say we move the following players into the bullpen and hope they can help the Orioles soon:

Oliver Drake, Chorye Spoone, Steve Johnson, Nathan Moreau, Nick Haughian, Rick Zagone, Tim Bascom

Nice to see they have already done this with Wynn Pelzer.


Many organizations use their highest upsides arms as starters in the lower level minors to gain experience. Usually, if the team sees them as relievers ONLY, they are placed in the bullpen at the AA or AAA level.

You might remember there was some discussion about doing that with Dan Klein as well as whether his permanent role was as a starter or reliever.

Almost all of the Orioles' pitching talent is at Frederick or lower so there is time before these decisions will have to be made.
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Re: Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

PostPost #4 by rjc3 » July 21st, 2011, 10:55 pm

ofahn wrote:Many organizations use their highest upsides arms as starters in the lower level minors to gain experience. Usually, if the team sees them as relievers ONLY, they are placed in the bullpen at the AA or AAA level.

You might remember there was some discussion about doing that with Dan Klein as well as whether his permanent role was as a starter or reliever.

Almost all of the Orioles' pitching talent is at Frederick or lower so there is time before these decisions will have to be made.

I know that. Out of the guys I named, only Moreau and Haughian are at Frederick or below.
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Re: Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

PostPost #5 by Jordan Tuwiner » July 21st, 2011, 11:30 pm

A_K wrote:Too soon on Chris Tillman? Maybe working two innings at a time could bring that fastball back to 95 MPH.

He needs to work hard over the off-season and bulk up a bit. If he still doesn't have the velocity, then move him to the pen. If he gets that 92-94 mph fastball back he'd be fine in the majors.

2012 spring training is certainly going to be interesting.
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Re: Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

PostPost #6 by OriolesRedskins28 » August 27th, 2011, 2:08 pm

rjc3 wrote:As most of us know, a lot of the better relievers in the MLB are failed starters. Guys who don't have quite the control to start or lack the solid third offering.

The Orioles seem to have quite a few of these guys in their system and it is time to move them to the bullpen.

I say we move the following players into the bullpen and hope they can help the Orioles soon:

Oliver Drake, Chorye Spoone, Steve Johnson, Nathan Moreau, Nick Haughian, Rick Zagone, Tim Bascom

Nice to see they have already done this with Wynn Pelzer.


I agree completely with that approach. I would add Brandon Erbe, Ryan Berry, Dan Klein and any other SPs who have had recurring health issues and/or overly taxing mechanics (Erbe). They finally made the right move and put Pedro Beato in the bullpen but it was too late. They should be more diligent with these conversions in the future. From the list you gave of potential SP converts, you could probably build a nice bullpen with ideally Schrader and Klein in the back end.
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Re: Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

PostPost #7 by ofahn » August 27th, 2011, 3:37 pm

OriolesRedskins28 wrote:They finally made the right move and put Pedro Beato in the bullpen but it was too late.


Maybe they were so slow in accepting that Beato was just a reliever because they were so short of legitimate starters in the farm system at that point. Maybe it was just poor evaluation. Certainly, you would have thought that the team would have accepted that Brandon Snyder was going to be no better than a multi position utility player by June or so of this year and transitioned him into that to allow a roster spot for Mahoney at Norfolk. It just seems like the game is a bit too fast for our development staff.
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Re: Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

PostPost #8 by Shorebirdfan » August 27th, 2011, 8:23 pm

I disagree with this theory. I think they have plenty of potential bullpen arms in the bullpen. Viola, Cooney, Klein, Henry, Schrader, Gurka, Gleason. They have finally gotten smart enough to bring up Adams and Angle. Lets continue to give the kids a chance. I mean what could happen they going to make us miss the post season?

The mistake they made with Beato was not considering a bullpen arm being developed at home a thing of value. I do agree with the comment that the game is too fast for our player development group.
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Re: Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

PostPost #9 by OriolesRedskins28 » August 27th, 2011, 10:53 pm

Shorebirdfan wrote:I disagree with this theory. I think they have plenty of potential bullpen arms in the bullpen. Viola, Cooney, Klein, Henry, Schrader, Gurka, Gleason. They have finally gotten smart enough to bring up Adams and Angle. Lets continue to give the kids a chance. I mean what could happen they going to make us miss the post season?

The mistake they made with Beato was not considering a bullpen arm being developed at home a thing of value. I do agree with the comment that the game is too fast for our player development group.


That's what I meant when I mentioned Beato, that moving him to the bullpen seemed like a last resort and the took him off the 40 man roster rather than giving him a real shot to succeed as a reliever and be an asset.

I can agree that you don't want to throw any and all struggling SP prospects to the bullpen, but with guys like Spoone and Erbe who some scouts thought would fit best in the bullpen early on in their careers whether it be because of lack of command (Spoone), poor offspeed pitches (Erbe), or questionable mechanics (Erbe, possibly Berry) should be moved rather than continuing to let them (Spoone) struggle in the upper minors as a SP (especially if they have a compromised arm). You can never have too many quality relievers, why not make bullpen depth a strength like the Rays did in 2010? Less guys like Josh Rupe and Jeremy Accardo and more guys like Jim Johnson or the 2010 Jason Berken, homegrown dependable relievers.
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Re: Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

PostPost #10 by Jordan Tuwiner » August 28th, 2011, 1:25 am

Shorebirdfan wrote:The mistake they made with Beato was not considering a bullpen arm being developed at home a thing of value. I do agree with the comment that the game is too fast for our player development group.

Completely agree with this point. The best bullpens are built with homegrown players. That way you aren't spending money on FA relievers...
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Re: Time to move some MiLB starters to the bullpen

PostPost #11 by Jordan Tuwiner » August 28th, 2011, 1:26 am

OriolesRedskins28 wrote:That's what I meant when I mentioned Beato, that moving him to the bullpen seemed like a last resort and the took him off the 40 man roster rather than giving him a real shot to succeed as a reliever and be an asset.

I can agree that you don't want to throw any and all struggling SP prospects to the bullpen, but with guys like Spoone and Erbe who some scouts thought would fit best in the bullpen early on in their careers whether it be because of lack of command (Spoone), poor offspeed pitches (Erbe), or questionable mechanics (Erbe, possibly Berry) should be moved rather than continuing to let them (Spoone) struggle in the upper minors as a SP (especially if they have a compromised arm). You can never have too many quality relievers, why not make bullpen depth a strength like the Rays did in 2010? Less guys like Josh Rupe and Jeremy Accardo and more guys like Jim Johnson or the 2010 Jason Berken, homegrown dependable relievers.

I hope they don't make the same mistake with Klein.

I've offered some thoughts on this over in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=512&p=3623#p3623
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