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O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #1 by Jordan Tuwiner » July 1st, 2011, 5:39 pm

The international signing period opens at midnight tonight, and Baseball America broke down what to expect for all 30 teams.

Baseball America's Ben Badler, who wrote the preview, placed the O's in his final category called "Bargain Hunters":
These teams haven't been mentioned in connection with any of the big-name prospects in Latin America. They will make smaller signings, but their international budgets figure to be among the lowest in the game.


Here's Badler's brief paragraph on the Orioles:
Baltimore Orioles: Orioles management has talked for years about wanting to get more involved internationally, but so far those efforts have been limited. Venezuelan lefthander Eduardo Rodriguez was a good 2010 signing who pitched well last year in the Dominican Summer League and is off to a nice start in the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League, but their actions in Latin America figure to be on the lower end again this year.
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #2 by ofahn » July 1st, 2011, 8:42 pm

The "Bargain Hunters" label wouldn't bother me so much if we were aggressive in signing the quality players we are drafting in June.

"Clipping coupons" doesn't build you a quality farm system.
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #3 by Jordan Tuwiner » July 1st, 2011, 10:06 pm

ofahn wrote:The "Bargain Hunters" label wouldn't bother me so much if we were aggressive in signing the quality players we are drafting in June.

"Clipping coupons" doesn't build you a quality farm system.

Still, Blue Jays, Red Sox and Yankees are all listed under the top group called "HIGH ROLLERS". The rest of the AL East is simply better than the Orioles in almost every area.
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #4 by Shorebirdfan » July 2nd, 2011, 10:56 am

I'm not even sure this qualifies as news. Bottom line on this though is that you only need to hit on one to make it a decent year. Hit on two and its a strong year.

Jordan wrote:[Still, Blue Jays, Red Sox and Yankees are all listed under the top group called "HIGH ROLLERS". The rest of the AL East is simply better than the Orioles in almost every area.


And you nailed it here. This should be the team motto."Orioles simply not as good in any area as the rest of the AL East since 1997."
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #5 by Jordan Tuwiner » July 10th, 2011, 12:33 am

Every other AL East team has signed at least one international prospect since July 2nd. O's? Zero.
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #6 by Don » July 10th, 2011, 10:47 am

I am not upset if the Orioles reach into their pockets and sign the five/six key high school players from this draft.

If they somehow can get Bundy, Delmonico, Roney, Davies, Meyer, Costa, and Zona signed, it would make up the lack of international talent.

The one thing that is not being mentioned and I openly question is the free will spending for a class that I do not hold water to some of the previous ones. It is something to consider when even the second tier prospects are coming close to 1 million signing bonuses. These second tier guys are not worth the first round money. I would sign Delmonico to that price over some of the guys that have been gushed under and retained for 750,000 or more....
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #7 by ofahn » July 10th, 2011, 2:08 pm

I couldn't agree more.

If we're going to ignore the international draft (a proven area of talent) then we should spend whatever is necessary to sign the quality prospects we have chosen in the Rule 4 (June) draft.

Spending money on these players is not an EXPENSE, it's an INVESTMENT.
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #8 by Jordan Tuwiner » July 10th, 2011, 2:46 pm

But the O's are in the cellar of the AL East. They need every advantage they can get. Simply acting like the international market doesn't matter just isn't smart.

The Red Sox, Jays, Rays, and Yankees beat out the O's every season on the international market. Yes, they can somewhat make up for it if they spend big in the draft, but why give the rest of the East such a clear advantage?
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #9 by ofahn » July 10th, 2011, 3:34 pm

I agree, but it's apparent that Andy Mac won't spend any serious money in the International Draft.

Regardless whether that's his choice or Angelos', it's the reality we face. If this team isn't willing to spend what it takes to sign the best players that they draft then we're doomed.
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #10 by DougDE » July 10th, 2011, 4:52 pm

I am so disgusted with this team I cant even stand it. Horrible team on the field and one of their strategies for fixing that is to ignore one of the main sources of talent. Yeah that'll get it done. Their record for a bonus is 300k given to a juicer, while the Sox have already spent more then that 3 times THIS year
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #11 by docjj » July 11th, 2011, 4:42 am

It is my understanding that there are two risks wit international talent.

First, the inadequate record keeping in many countries allows for birth documents to be easily faked, and one can never be sure how old any of these guys are. There are stories where a player thought to be 18 ended upbeing as old as 25.

Second, many, if not the majority, of these guys are taking huge amounts of PED's. There is no testing for banned substances at all in these countries, and all the players are taking the stuff to try to get rich.

So you might end up with a 26 yr old roider who will cost you millions.
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #12 by ofahn » July 11th, 2011, 6:45 am

Everything you say is true BUT, look at the Baseball America 50 best prospect mid season report. By my count at least 10 of those guys are international signings.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2011/07/midseason-top-50-prospects-list/

Clearly, SOME teams know how to scout that market.
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #13 by Don » July 11th, 2011, 9:46 am

I do not blame them one bit for not be big spenders at the outset. Some teams have simply gone Mad with the free spending for north of 3 million dollars. That is saying these kids are top three talent and I am not buying it.

I want to see them go after players, but perfectly fine reaching for the guys in the mid six figure range. Those guys do not sign on July 2 and it is a long two month period. If they do not sign anyone, they must attempt to fill the cupboard with the tough sign drafted players. If they can land the touger signed talented players, it makes up for the lack this season.

I do not like the fact that year in and year out this system still lacks international players. There are so many leagues, etc... that the scouts get to see plenty of game action. Simply pay the handelers to bring them to best players to the Orioles complex. Split the costs with the Brewers on multiple players. You get to see them for a few weeks in game action and against live pitching.

I have said this is no longer the wild, wild west when I first started. The Orioles can find ways to see players in games and McPhail has no excuse to throw out the references that he does. Saying this, guys are not worth 3 million plus. Not when half of the guys in the futures game yesterday were way south of 1 million signing bonus.
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #14 by DougDE » July 11th, 2011, 1:10 pm

Don wrote:I want to see them go after players, but perfectly fine reaching for the guys in the mid six figure range. Those guys do not sign on July 2 and it is a long two month period.

The 3 Sox signings I saw were all under a mil but greater then 300K. Its like gambling, scared money never wins, and the Orioles certainly are scared. Or just plain cheap. Tired of hearing the Orioles crap. The good teams get it done
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Re: O's won't be big players in 2011 international market

PostPost #15 by Jordan Tuwiner » July 11th, 2011, 2:01 pm

Don wrote:I do not blame them one bit for not be big spenders at the outset. Some teams have simply gone Mad with the free spending for north of 3 million dollars. That is saying these kids are top three talent and I am not buying it.

I want to see them go after players, but perfectly fine reaching for the guys in the mid six figure range. Those guys do not sign on July 2 and it is a long two month period. If they do not sign anyone, they must attempt to fill the cupboard with the tough sign drafted players. If they can land the touger signed talented players, it makes up for the lack this season.

I do not like the fact that year in and year out this system still lacks international players. There are so many leagues, etc... that the scouts get to see plenty of game action. Simply pay the handelers to bring them to best players to the Orioles complex. Split the costs with the Brewers on multiple players. You get to see them for a few weeks in game action and against live pitching.

I have said this is no longer the wild, wild west when I first started. The Orioles can find ways to see players in games and McPhail has no excuse to throw out the references that he does. Saying this, guys are not worth 3 million plus. Not when half of the guys in the futures game yesterday were way south of 1 million signing bonus.

Still, the international market provides a chance to add even more talent to the system. Even with all the problems that the steroids, faked ages, etc., present, a team like the Orioles needs to jump on every single opportunity they can to add more talent into their system.

Why only spend more in the draft when you can spend more in the draft and on the international market? Work with both markets.
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