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"Grow the bats!" "Buy the arms!"

"Grow the bats!" "Buy the arms!"

PostPost #1 by docjj » July 22nd, 2011, 3:09 am

I was initially a fan of the "grow the arms" proposal. Now I'm not so sure. First of all, pitchers get hurt. You could have a stud arm in the minors and one injury can derail the entire career. Second, some pitchers just never end up as good as they are expected to be: see Hayden Penn, Matt Riley, and now Chris Tillman. They may have the build, arm strength, velocity, but just don't make it. Third, some pitchers can develop unexplained velocity loss that makes them very hittable. In this category, you can put Brian Matusz, and Chris Tillman.

Maybe you have to "grow the bats" and buy the arms. Yes, a high-priced free agent pitcher can be an injury risk, and very expensive. But a proven MLB pitcher that has withstood the test of time might be the better route to take. He will have already demonstrated consistency, tendency toward good health, durability, and maintained velocity and accuracy.

The storebought rotations of New York and Philadelphia seem to be doing pretty well.

"Grow the bats, buy the arms!"
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Re: "Grow the bats!" "Buy the arms!"

PostPost #2 by ofahn » July 22nd, 2011, 11:14 am

Yes, a high-priced free agent pitcher can be an injury risk, and very expensive. But a proven MLB pitcher that has withstood the test of time might be the better route to take. He will have already demonstrated consistency, tendency toward good health, durability, and maintained velocity and accuracy.


Which free agent pitcher this Winter that meets your qualifications do you think will want to come to Baltimore?
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Re: "Grow the bats!" "Buy the arms!"

PostPost #3 by docjj » July 22nd, 2011, 11:18 am

Point taken. No one meets these qualifications and wants to come to Baltimore. Actually, it's that last part that's the trouble. If I were a coveted free agent, Baltimore would be the last place I'd want to go.
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Re: "Grow the bats!" "Buy the arms!"

PostPost #4 by A_K » July 22nd, 2011, 12:42 pm

I do think part of MacPhail's philosophy was born of circumstance. Perhaps he agrees with the "grow the arms, buy the bats" notion in a vacuum, but I think his primary rationale was that "buying pitchers" is a virtual impossibility when you play in the AL East, in a hitter's park, and are at a distinct financial disadvantage to the two teams with whom you're competing for wins and the pitchers you're trying to purchase. If you're a free agent pitcher, an offer from the Yankees is preferable not only because it's most likely going to be more substantial, but also because you won't have to pitch against the Yankees. Same goes for the Red Sox.
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Re: "Grow the bats!" "Buy the arms!"

PostPost #5 by Jordan Tuwiner » July 22nd, 2011, 10:38 pm

A_K wrote:I do think part of MacPhail's philosophy was born of circumstance. Perhaps he agrees with the "grow the arms, buy the bats" notion in a vacuum, but I think his primary rationale was that "buying pitchers" is a virtual impossibility when you play in the AL East, in a hitter's park, and are at a distinct financial disadvantage to the two teams with whom you're competing for wins and the pitchers you're trying to purchase. If you're a free agent pitcher, an offer from the Yankees is preferable not only because it's most likely going to be more substantial, but also because you won't have to pitch against the Yankees. Same goes for the Red Sox.

This builds on something I continue to stress about how the Orioles handle their pitching prospects.

If you want to "grow the arms" then at least make sure they are ready before they come up! The Rays have MLB ready guys in Triple-A and when they come up they get production right away. The Orioles start the service clock early and at the same time do not get good production.

Does not make sense to me. I understand the Orioles don't have the depth the Rays have, but still...
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Re: "Grow the bats!" "Buy the arms!"

PostPost #6 by rjc3 » July 23rd, 2011, 1:10 pm

Jordan wrote:This builds on something I continue to stress about how the Orioles handle their pitching prospects.

If you want to "grow the arms" then at least make sure they are ready before they come up! The Rays have MLB ready guys in Triple-A and when they come up they get production right away. The Orioles start the service clock early and at the same time do not get good production.

Does not make sense to me. I understand the Orioles don't have the depth the Rays have, but still...


I have never really thought about that though it makes sense. So were you against Matusz coming up from Bowie?
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Re: "Grow the bats!" "Buy the arms!"

PostPost #7 by Jordan Tuwiner » July 24th, 2011, 11:16 pm

rjc3 wrote:
Jordan wrote:This builds on something I continue to stress about how the Orioles handle their pitching prospects.

If you want to "grow the arms" then at least make sure they are ready before they come up! The Rays have MLB ready guys in Triple-A and when they come up they get production right away. The Orioles start the service clock early and at the same time do not get good production.

Does not make sense to me. I understand the Orioles don't have the depth the Rays have, but still...


I have never really thought about that though it makes sense. So were you against Matusz coming up from Bowie?

I was against it, but not as much as others.

You will always have the rare case with guys like Strasburg etc., and Matusz somewhat fit that bill at the time. It was clear he was too good for minors.
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Re: "Grow the bats!" "Buy the arms!"

PostPost #8 by dan72 » July 25th, 2011, 8:37 am

trade koji and Guthrie for young starting pitching prospects. Guthrie despite his ERA, is a loser. I know he is facing the oponents #1 every time out, but when losing is an accepted way of life its time to make a change. I hope our younger guys dont accept losing. I would blow my lid in the club house if I pitched 7 innings and gave up 2-3 runs and came away with a loss. Someone needs to be vocal about the bats not showing up. From top to bottom our opponents have better talent at every position accept CF. That is a problem. Trade for young prospect arms, pitching wins championships. Its all about who you can run out there in a best of 5 or 7 series.
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Re: "Grow the bats!" "Buy the arms!"

PostPost #9 by Jordan Tuwiner » July 25th, 2011, 11:09 pm

dan72 wrote:trade koji and Guthrie for young starting pitching prospects. Guthrie despite his ERA, is a loser. I know he is facing the oponents #1 every time out, but when losing is an accepted way of life its time to make a change. I hope our younger guys dont accept losing. I would blow my lid in the club house if I pitched 7 innings and gave up 2-3 runs and came away with a loss. Someone needs to be vocal about the bats not showing up. From top to bottom our opponents have better talent at every position accept CF. That is a problem. Trade for young prospect arms, pitching wins championships. Its all about who you can run out there in a best of 5 or 7 series.

Guthrie was fairly vocal in his post-game interview of his last outing.

http://www.masnsports.com/index_medialo ... =675345&p=
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