Welcome to the Orioles Nation Forums! Like most online communities, you must register to post on our message board. However, posting is free--it always will be--and registration is a simple process. Become part of the growing Orioles Nation community and register now!

Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #1 by osforlife » July 20th, 2014, 4:54 pm

Now, that headline may seem a little odd, considering Baltimore is a first place team, and shouldn't be selling major league pieces, but I think this is an interesting situation. Young has been productive in limited at-bats this season, slashing .305 /.333/.424 in a reserve role. But, his potential at-bats have been usurped by a surprisingly great Steve Pearce. The reason I would be advise to keep Young is because he would presumably step into a larger role if one of Pearce, Markakis, or Cruz got injured. But then again, Young has only started seven times since May 26th. He seems like a wasted asset, at least at the moment. The Orioles are known to be looking for bullpen help. Young, a free agent at the end of the season, could potentially be traded for semi-rental bullpen piece. The Angels, Bluejays, Giants, Mariners, and/or Reds could be interested in Young.

What should the Orioles do with Delmon Young?
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #2 by Seafordeagles » July 20th, 2014, 9:15 pm

The most wasted spot on the roster is David Lough. Find a left handed bat to replace him.
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 696
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #3 by osforlife » July 21st, 2014, 8:54 am

Seafordeagles wrote:The most wasted spot on the roster is David Lough. Find a left handed bat to replace him.

I disagree. According to baseball-reference, Lough has been more valuable than Nick Hundley, Ryan Flaherty, Steve Clevenger, Brad Brach, Preston Guilmet, Tommy Hunter, Brian Matusz, Ryan Webb, and Ubaldo Jimenez. He's been equivolent in value to Delmon Young, Jonathan Schoop, and Chris Tillman.

Look, David Lough plays great defense, backups center field, is cheap, has more speed than 85% of Baltimore's active position players, and is under control through the 2019 season. He is half a season removed from a 2.5 WAR season in 96 games in his rookie season. He has shown he can hit at the AAA level and major league level. For what it's worth, his OPS on May 31st was .434 and today it is .579. He did hit .296 in June, albeit limited at-bats.

Has he been a huge disappointment thus far? Yes.
Should he sit the bench in favor Steve Pearce? Yes.
Is he still a solid bench piece for the club? Yes.
Could he be useful next season when Nick Markakis, Nelson Cruz, and Delmon Young all hit in the free agent market? Yes.
Is it really a smart move to DFA him, lose him to another team, in order to call up 29 year old Quintin Berry, when Berry will be called up in about a month anyway? No, it is not.
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #4 by Seafordeagles » July 21st, 2014, 3:18 pm

osforlife wrote:I disagree. According to baseball-reference, Lough has been more valuable than Nick Hundley, Ryan Flaherty, Steve Clevenger, Brad Brach, Preston Guilmet, Tommy Hunter, Brian Matusz, Ryan Webb, and Ubaldo Jimenez. He's been equivolent in value to Delmon Young, Jonathan Schoop, and Chris Tillman.

Look, David Lough plays great defense, backups center field, is cheap, has more speed than 85% of Baltimore's active position players, and is under control through the 2019 season. He is half a season removed from a 2.5 WAR season in 96 games in his rookie season. He has shown he can hit at the AAA level and major league level. For what it's worth, his OPS on May 31st was .434 and today it is .579. He did hit .296 in June, albeit limited at-bats.

Has he been a huge disappointment thus far? Yes.
Should he sit the bench in favor Steve Pearce? Yes.
Is he still a solid bench piece for the club? Yes.
Could he be useful next season when Nick Markakis, Nelson Cruz, and Delmon Young all hit in the free agent market? Yes.
Is it really a smart move to DFA him, lose him to another team, in order to call up 29 year old Quintin Berry, when Berry will be called up in about a month anyway? No, it is not.


Since you started the thread on a back up player I've tried to tell you we need a LEFTHANDED HITTER to come off the bench. We have nothing. Flaherty is a roster spot being used for a mediorcre player. Clevenger has not proven he can hit major league pitching. Lough had a 1/2 season of moderate success in the majors. This year he has tanked.

You want to trade our most reliable hitter off the bench. Young got signed for a song and has produced. Yet you wanted to know if we should trade Young and you want to keep non producing players. That totally baffles me.
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 696
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #5 by osforlife » July 21st, 2014, 7:38 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
Since you started the thread on a back up player I've tried to tell you we need a LEFTHANDED HITTER to come off the bench. We have nothing. Flaherty is a roster spot being used for a mediorcre player. Clevenger has not proven he can hit major league pitching. Lough had a 1/2 season of moderate success in the majors. This year he has tanked.

You want to trade our most reliable hitter off the bench. Young got signed for a song and has produced. Yet you wanted to know if we should trade Young and you want to keep non producing players. That totally baffles me.

Again, Lough and Young have been equivalent in value this year. Lough produces defensively, Young produces offensively. So when you say I want to keep non producing players, I really don't know what you're talking about. Unless you consider Young as a non producing player. So when you say Lough has tanked this season, you consider Young has tanked too right?

In their career's, Lough has been worth 3.0 WAR. Young has been worth 2.4 WAR. In other words, Lough has been 20% more valuable than Young, in 18% of his playing time.
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #6 by Seafordeagles » July 22nd, 2014, 7:20 am

osforlife wrote:Again, Lough and Young have been equivalent in value this year. Lough produces defensively, Young produces offensively. So when you say I want to keep non producing players, I really don't know what you're talking about. Unless you consider Young as a non producing player. So when you say Lough has tanked this season, you consider Young has tanked too right?

In their career's, Lough has been worth 3.0 WAR. Young has been worth 2.4 WAR. In other words, Lough has been 20% more valuable than Young, in 18% of his playing time.



This is ridiculous. You are judging Lough's value on defense for basically one inning as a defensive replacement. Then you say this:

"Unless you consider Young as a non producing player."

When you know I said that Young got signed for a song and has produced. Please don't twist around what I said.
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 696
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #7 by osforlife » July 22nd, 2014, 8:13 am

Seafordeagles wrote:

This is ridiculous. You are judging Lough's value on defense for basically one inning as a defensive replacement. Then you say this:

"Unless you consider Young as a non producing player."

When you know I said that Young got signed for a song and has produced. Please don't twist around what I said.

...And you are judging Young's value on offensive for basically one-at bat as an offensive replacement....

Look, according to Baseball-Reference, Lough and Young have both been worth exactly 0.6 WAR. According to Fangraphs, Lough has been slightly more productive, as he has a 0.5 fWAR while Young has a 0.4 fWAR. Lough produces defensively, Young produces offensively. They have both played roughly the same amount. The playing time is close, but it would probably be equal if the Orioles were in the national league. Anyway, if you consider Lough a non-producing player, I don't see how you can consider Young a producing player based off the numbers I've shown above.
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #8 by Seafordeagles » July 22nd, 2014, 10:24 am

war doesn't win you championships. You are way too much into these kind of numbers. Then you bring up if the orioles were in the national league. C'mon man that's way off base and not a realistic comparison, because that ain't NEVER gonna happen.

Quit looking at the hypothetical side of baseball. Look at what is happening now. How can you say the Young and Lough are equal? Oh, that's right, war told you so.
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 696
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #9 by osforlife » July 22nd, 2014, 3:45 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:war doesn't win you championships. You are way too much into these kind of numbers. Then you bring up if the orioles were in the national league. C'mon man that's way off base and not a realistic comparison, because that ain't NEVER gonna happen.

Quit looking at the hypothetical side of baseball. Look at what is happening now. How can you say the Young and Lough are equal? Oh, that's right, war told you so.

Because somewhere along the line of my life, I realized that offense isn't the only part of baseball. Players do indeed play defense. And good defense is indeed valuable. Just as good offense is valuable. Lough produces with the glove, Young produces with the bat. What's so difficult to understand?

I was just saying that Lough and Young have roughly played the same amount. Lough has nine more plate appearances.
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #10 by Seafordeagles » July 22nd, 2014, 6:48 pm

When it comes to left fielders I want them to be able to hit. I want my defense strong up the middle. Historically the weakest fielders play left field, Lough is an exception to that. Lough usually plays left field one inning a game, and that's what you do not or will not understand. His bat is killing the orioles when he gets a start. You can't say the same thing for Young's bat.

Every good team wants pop from someone on the bench and Young is the only player that can do that on the current Orioles. If you need someone to hit for a starter I want Delmon Young to be the hitter in a crucial situation. I could never say that this year about David Lough.
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 696
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #11 by osforlife » July 23rd, 2014, 8:55 am

Seafordeagles wrote:When it comes to left fielders I want them to be able to hit. I want my defense strong up the middle. Historically the weakest fielders play left field, Lough is an exception to that. Lough usually plays left field one inning a game, and that's what you do not or will not understand. His bat is killing the orioles when he gets a start. You can't say the same thing for Young's bat.

Every good team wants pop from someone on the bench and Young is the only player that can do that on the current Orioles. If you need someone to hit for a starter I want Delmon Young to be the hitter in a crucial situation. I could never say that this year about David Lough.


1st bold) And Young gets one at-bat every three games...
2nd bold) I can say the same thing for Young's defense/base-running...
3rd bold) Every good team wants elite defense from someone off the bench and Lough is the only player that can do that on the current Orioles.

The difference between the two, is that Young will play for the Orioles for two more months, while the team controls Lough for 5+ more years. Another difference between the two is that, Lough projects to hit better for the rest of the season, while the opposite is true for Young. Lough's BABIP; .239. Young's BABIP; .374. Clearly, Young's best days this season have already occurred, and the opposite is true for Lough.
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #12 by Seafordeagles » July 23rd, 2014, 5:16 pm

When you get into THAT PROJECTION CRAP you totally lose me. Come back to the real world, the real game and quit forcusing on what is projected. I deal with reality not projections. In reality we have 4 lefthanded hitters on the roster. Three are struggling big time. That's why in my opinion we need a lefthanded bat to come off the bench who can maybe hit .260 with a little pop. The obvious guy to trade is Lough or send Flaherty to the minors if we can secure that lefthanded hitter (Chase Utley comes to mind).

Did they also project that Manny would have back spasms last night or someone has to go on the bereavement list?

This cybergeeking crap is a losing battle for me. So long.
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 696
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #13 by osforlife » July 24th, 2014, 9:08 am

Seafordeagles wrote:When you get into THAT PROJECTION CRAP you totally lose me. Come back to the real world, the real game and quit forcusing on what is projected. I deal with reality not projections. In reality we have 4 lefthanded hitters on the roster. Three are struggling big time. That's why in my opinion we need a lefthanded bat to come off the bench who can maybe hit .260 with a little pop. The obvious guy to trade is Lough or send Flaherty to the minors if we can secure that lefthanded hitter (Chase Utley comes to mind).

Did they also project that Manny would have back spasms last night or someone has to go on the bereavement list?

This cybergeeking crap is a losing battle for me. So long.


Since when are statistics crap? Those projections were correct when they predicted Nelson Cruz would slow down, Steve Pearce would slow down, and Machado would heat up..Obviously nobody can predict injuries. Delmon Young's BABIP the last three years is just over .300. His career BABIP is .323. Those are real numbers, not projections. If you really think Delmon Young can sustain a .374 BABIP, go ahead. In reality, Young's best days have already happened this season and he will naturally slow down. In reality, his trade value is the highest it will ever be, and in reality he is a free agent at the end of the season.

In reality, David Lough is hitting over .300 since June 1st, plays great defense, is cheap, under control for five more years, and is the biggest steal threat on the team. Is he really struggling, or are you stuck in April/May?

Now, who really is the ideal trade candidate?
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #14 by Seafordeagles » July 24th, 2014, 3:28 pm

osforlife wrote:
Since when are statistics crap?


Statistics are not crap PROJECTING STATISTICS is crap. You are the one who posted about projecting Lough to hit better. How can you project that?
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 696
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Should the Orioles trade Delmon Young?

PostPost #15 by Seafordeagles » July 25th, 2014, 11:06 am

Young 3 run bomb, looks like he's fading............................................
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 696
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18


Next

Return to Baltimore Orioles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

cron