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why not Clevenger

why not Clevenger

PostPost #1 by docjj » June 13th, 2014, 4:23 pm

Clevenger seems to be able to hit. I know his defense may not be great, but I'd much rather have him in the lineup than Joseph or Hundley.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #2 by ljmillar22 » June 14th, 2014, 7:29 am

I was thinking exactly the same thing, both Hundley and Joseph aren't batting well and are both right handed, I would like to see Clevenger up instead to provide that lefty option off the bench.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #3 by osforlife » June 14th, 2014, 10:37 am

There's absolutely no reason why Clevenger should be in the minors. The man has a .329/.386/.455/.841 career batting line in AAA for heaven's sake. He has nothing left to prove at AAA. I understand Joseph has been surprisingly good at defense, but a .409 OPS in unacceptable. I like the acquisition of Hundley, although I don't like what the Orioles gave up for him. Joseph needs to show he can hit AAA pitching first.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #4 by Seafordeagles » June 14th, 2014, 2:36 pm

osforlife wrote:There's absolutely no reason why Clevenger should be in the minors. The man has a .329/.386/.455/.841 career batting line in AAA for heaven's sake. He has nothing left to prove at AAA. I understand Joseph has been surprisingly good at defense, but a .409 OPS in unacceptable. I like the acquisition of Hundley, although I don't like what the Orioles gave up for him. Joseph needs to show he can hit AAA pitching first.


It's all about defense. Buck has already been quoted saying that about Clevenger. Even though I don't disagree with your statement about his hitting.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #5 by osforlife » June 14th, 2014, 2:47 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
It's all about defense. Buck has already been quoted saying that about Clevenger. Even though I don't disagree with your statement about his hitting.

Joseph's offense is worse than Clevenger's defense.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #6 by Seafordeagles » June 14th, 2014, 3:12 pm

osforlife wrote:Joseph's offense is worse than Clevenger's defense.


Then you have to trust in Buck. After all it's his decision.

On another note, what has happened with this site? It's totally dead.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #7 by osforlife » June 15th, 2014, 11:56 am

Seafordeagles wrote:
Then you have to trust in Buck. After all it's his decision.

On another note, what has happened with this site? It's totally dead.

I feel like we just need more consistent contributors. It's a shame, because this really is the best Orioles site out there.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #8 by osforlife » June 24th, 2014, 9:24 am

Clevenger is still raking at Norfolk, but it appears Joseph might go on a tear. Hundley's been crap, but if he can produce like he's done throughout his career, he should some solid support behind the plate. He's better than a normal back-up but not good enough to be a starter in my mind.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #9 by ljmillar22 » June 27th, 2014, 7:14 am

Knowing that wieters is done for the year and how both Joseph and Hundley are batting poorly, does anyone think that we trade for another catcher? And if so who?
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #10 by osforlife » June 27th, 2014, 8:26 am

Joseph does has a solid (.234/.315 /.447) batting line in June. It's not that I don't like Joseph, I just really like Clevenger. I'm frustrated that he's not with the big league club. Catcher mobility isn't very flexible right now. First of all, Baltimore won't carry three catchers at the moment. I could see it in the future, for the left handed bat off the bench. Clevenger's offensive game might become more useful once Delmon Young (.380 BABIP) and Steve Pearce (.391 BABIP) cool off. But anyway, right now, a Clevenger/Joseph platoon would make a lot of sense, if the Orioles hadn't traded Troy Patton for Nick Hundley. Hundley really can't be dropped now. A Clevenger/Hundley platoon couldn't work because Hundley doesn't hit LHP for some reason.

I doubt they make a move for a catcher. Like the starting pitching, the catching depth is there, but the quality hasn't come yet. Obvious available catchers include Russell Martin, Aj Pierzynski, and Kurt Suzuki. Some other possibilities may include Tyler Flowers, Josh Phegley, Jason Castro, Francisco Cervelli, JR Murphy, and/or Jose Molina.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #11 by Seafordeagles » July 2nd, 2014, 11:51 am

Here's why Clevenger is down and Caleb is up. This from MASN today:

Orioles catcher Caleb Joseph does not yet qualify for the American League defensive league leaders. If he did, his caught stealing percentage of 52 percent would be tops in the AL.
A player needs to appear in 50 percent of his team's games to qualify. Joseph has played in 33 of 83 Orioles games.
The AL leader is Robinson Chirinos of the Texas team the O's face tonight. He has caught 48.8 percent. The Yankees' Brian McCann is second at 45.5 percent.
Joseph has thrown out 13 of 25 for the season. He clearly is doing a very solid defensive job for the Orioles. Manager Buck Showalter talked yesterday about Joseph and that impressive caught stealing percentage.

Here's the link: http://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewsk ... ntage.html
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #12 by osforlife » July 2nd, 2014, 4:08 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:Here's why Clevenger is down and Caleb is up. This from MASN today:

Orioles catcher Caleb Joseph does not yet qualify for the American League defensive league leaders. If he did, his caught stealing percentage of 52 percent would be tops in the AL.
A player needs to appear in 50 percent of his team's games to qualify. Joseph has played in 33 of 83 Orioles games.
The AL leader is Robinson Chirinos of the Texas team the O's face tonight. He has caught 48.8 percent. The Yankees' Brian McCann is second at 45.5 percent.
Joseph has thrown out 13 of 25 for the season. He clearly is doing a very solid defensive job for the Orioles. Manager Buck Showalter talked yesterday about Joseph and that impressive caught stealing percentage.

Here's the link: http://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewsk ... ntage.html

I have a hard time believing that Caleb Joseph is really that good of a defensive catcher. There are an overwhelming amount of scouting reports that say he was not good defensively. Maybe he has improved a little, but to become the best catcher in the American League? No way. Hell, last year the Orioles moved him off of catcher and only moved him back because there was a need there. I'm sure his defensive numbers will regress after a larger sample size comes into play. Do I have hope his offensive numbers will get better? Not really. The Orioles obviously thought he wasn't ready to be moved up to Norfolk until after four years at Bowie. He did hit well eventually there, but only after two seasons there(his age 26 and 27 seasons too). He went on to play in 22 games for Norfolk and didn't hit that well. I hate the trending policy in baseball where it's okay to move up a player to a new level without that player proving himself at that level. Jonathan Schoop hasn't hit well since Frederick, and he obviously has no business being in the majors. I don't understand why organizations can't let these players earn it. Have Joseph show he can hit AAA pitching before facing MLB pitching.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #13 by Seafordeagles » July 2nd, 2014, 4:39 pm

osforlife wrote:I have a hard time believing that Caleb Joseph is really that good of a defensive catcher. There are an overwhelming amount of scouting reports that say he was not good defensively. Maybe he has improved a little, but to become the best catcher in the American League? No way. Hell, last year the Orioles moved him off of catcher and only moved him back because there was a need there. I'm sure his defensive numbers will regress after a larger sample size comes into play. Do I have hope his offensive numbers will get better? Not really. The Orioles obviously thought he wasn't ready to be moved up to Norfolk until after four years at Bowie. He did hit well eventually there, but only after two seasons there(his age 26 and 27 seasons too). He went on to play in 22 games for Norfolk and didn't hit that well. I hate the trending policy in baseball where it's okay to move up a player to a new level without that player proving himself at that level. Jonathan Schoop hasn't hit well since Frederick, and he obviously has no business being in the majors. I don't understand why organizations can't let these players earn it. Have Joseph show he can hit AAA pitching before facing MLB pitching.


Well don't ever let stats cloud your thinking in what Joseph has done at the major league level defensively. You have constantly been pointing out Schoop and Joseph but how does Lough get a free pass?

Schoop earned a spot in the majors with a fine spring training. Schoop is the best hitting 2nd baseman on the Orioles and in Norfolk. If you think Weeks is the answer you are quite mistaken. We know Flaherty is only there because he hits left handed, even though not very well.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #14 by osforlife » July 3rd, 2014, 11:32 am

Seafordeagles wrote:
Well don't ever let stats cloud your thinking in what Joseph has done at the major league level defensively. You have constantly been pointing out Schoop and Joseph but how does Lough get a free pass?

Schoop earned a spot in the majors with a fine spring training. Schoop is the best hitting 2nd baseman on the Orioles and in Norfolk. If you think Weeks is the answer you are quite mistaken. We know Flaherty is only there because he hits left handed, even though not very well.

David Lough has shown he can hit AAA pitching and major league pitching. He's also out of options and the only back-up center fielder on the 40-man roster. I disagree with your Schoop statement. Schoop has a .227/.269/.346 line in the majors, while Weeks has a .259/.319/.359. In AAA, Schoop has a .256/.301/.396, while Weeks has a .286/.390/.392. Weeks could get twenty net steals in a season too. Schoop has 13 net steals in his career.
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Re: why not Clevenger

PostPost #15 by Seafordeagles » July 3rd, 2014, 2:31 pm

osforlife wrote:David Lough has shown he can hit AAA pitching and major league pitching. He's also out of options and the only back-up center fielder on the 40-man roster. I disagree with your Schoop statement. Schoop has a .227/.269/.346 line in the majors, while Weeks has a .259/.319/.359. In AAA, Schoop has a .256/.301/.396, while Weeks has a .286/.390/.392. Weeks could get twenty net steals in a season too. Schoop has 13 net steals in his career.


I think Buck agrees with me and he disagrees with you on Schoop.

As for Lough why did he languish so long in the minor leagues when the Kansas City Royals had LOUSY teams? Why would KC trade him for a right handed DH in Valencia when they already had Billy Butler for that role. Maybe KC knew something that the Orioles didn't know.
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