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O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #1 by Tucker Blair » November 22nd, 2013, 3:02 pm

http://orioles-nation.com/orioles/blog/ ... y-peralta/

Thoughts?

It is certainly interesting, but is he really the right type of player for this club?
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #2 by Old Sneakers » November 22nd, 2013, 6:39 pm

To play LF?
No!


To play SS or 3B sure!

1- JJ Hardy would be traded
2- Peralta could handle 3B if Machado is not ready to begin the season
3- Once Machado is ready for 3B, slide Peralta over to SS.

But the Orioles have said Hardy isn't being shopped.
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #3 by AlexConway » November 23rd, 2013, 2:25 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:To play LF?
No!


To play SS or 3B sure!

1- JJ Hardy would be traded
2- Peralta could handle 3B if Machado is not ready to begin the season
3- Once Machado is ready for 3B, slide Peralta over to SS.

But the Orioles have said Hardy isn't being shopped.


It certainly is interesting, not sure I like it all, but interesting nonetheless.

I think the Orioles are willing to trade Hardy but they aren't trying to get rid of him.
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #4 by osforlife » November 23rd, 2013, 6:01 pm

Yes, the Orioles have had two winning seasons in a row, but everybody can see Baltimore is a mess, and is heading down a undesirable path.
1. no farm system
2. upcoming impending free agents
3. limited financial flexibility
4. constantly brutal division

Honestly, just trade Davis, Wieters, Hardy, and Johnson. It would instantly load the minors with talent, erase a lot of money of the payroll, and even plug some holes at the major league level. Fill the rest of the holes with cheap, short-term veterans that will able to be traded at the deadline.
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #5 by Seafordeagles » November 23rd, 2013, 8:24 pm

The Cardinals are close to a deal with Jhonny Peralta, a source tells Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #6 by Seafordeagles » November 23rd, 2013, 8:29 pm

osforlife wrote:Yes, the Orioles have had two winning seasons in a row, but everybody can see Baltimore is a mess, and is heading down a undesirable path.
1. no farm system
2. upcoming impending free agents
3. limited financial flexibility
4. constantly brutal division

Honestly, just trade Davis, Wieters, Hardy, and Johnson. It would instantly load the minors with talent, erase a lot of money of the payroll, and even plug some holes at the major league level. Fill the rest of the holes with cheap, short-term veterans that will able to be traded at the deadline.


Okay let's trade those guys for prospects who may never amount to anything and short-term veterans and be in last place for the next 5 years. The Orioles have been down this road before. Then after 5 years the next crop of soon to be Oriole free agents can then be traded for more prospects, and the vicious cycle continues year after year after year.............................
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #7 by Old Sneakers » November 24th, 2013, 1:00 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
Okay let's trade those guys for prospects who may never amount to anything and short-term veterans and be in last place for the next 5 years. The Orioles have been down this road before. Then after 5 years the next crop of soon to be Oriole free agents can then be traded for more prospects, and the vicious cycle continues year after year after year.............................



If any team wishes to compete from a talent and payroll standpoint then it must acquire prospects and develop them.


You can go through arbitration once and payroll will remain healthy. After that you have no choice but to move those you can not build around. You go through arbitration a second time and your payroll suddenly goes into flux. It becomes a matter of "Is this player really worthwhile?"

Service time clocks are ticking away right now on the team's core talent.
JJ Hardy-Gone after 2014
Nick Markakis-Gone after 2014 (2015 team has $2Million option or pay $17.5 Million=He's as good as gone!)
Jim Johnson-Gone after 2014 (Will cost too much in 2014, he's gone in 2015)

This is manageable! Hardy will be missed greatly as his salary vs. worth has been an excellent investment! He's done all you could ask for but perhaps slow starts. Markakis is expensive now. While he's been a good player I don't think he's worth the money he got early. Johnson as we all know has been over used and gets exposed in July the past two years. His salary is huge for his role. Better to part company with him this off-season. But fans will tolerate his departure next year.


Matt Weiters-Gone after 2015
Chris Davis-Gone after 2015

Weiters is going to get way too much money. His defense has been outstanding, he's a fine catcher. I wish him well. I don't want him or his agent destroying the Baltimore Orioles payroll for the next 4-7 years. He's not worth it. As for Davis, he will likely prove to have peaked in Baltimore and make some team a fine first baseman for years to come. He will likely prove to be a fine investment for a large payroll team. That team is not in Baltimore. I wish him, his agent and foolish fans the best. While first base has been an annual issue for Baltimore fans the problem is very manageable. Trade both of them and completely restock this team's minor league system for the next three to four years!

Would the 2014 Baltimore Orioles look fantastic in 2014? Unlikely. I think your already looking at 77 wins at best now! I survived the 2008 and 2009 fiascoes that were thrust upon us. I can tolerate a mediocre year in 2014. But there are no excuses to "Win now and suck later" because that is exactly where we are headed at present!

Lets keep going!

Over the next two years from today. We will likely see Mike Wright, Eduardo Rodriguez and perhaps Tim Berry slowly worked into the Baltimore Orioles starting rotation. None will be flawless at first and it is acceptable if an option or two gets burned before they are rotation mainstays. After this however they should be able to work out well and remain affordable for some time. Then guess who is arbitration eligible? Chris Tillman! While we loved his results in half of 2012 and all of 2014 it might be time to make a move following 2014. If he has another fine season he would be worth a bundle! If not he's going to get it in arbitration from the Orioles. Did I mention Wei-Yin Chen? He is reported to make $4.07 Million in 2014 as is. Guess what after 2014 he's arbitration eligible too! He won't come cheap. Certainly he's been a fine investment, but he's not a 200 IP a year player. Might as well consider trade options on him soon as well.

My point is Davis' and Weiters' value is right now as high as it ever will be. Both can be replaced. They are not saviors, they are not the over the top talents that will cause this team to win a division. The best contribution they possibly could make for this team is as a return in prospects. It's up to Dan Douquette to explore trade options. Coming from me it's just another fan's opinion but for the money been shelled out we could be a lot better.
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #8 by Seafordeagles » November 24th, 2013, 2:02 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:Then after 5 years the next crop of soon to be Oriole free agents can then be traded for more prospects, and the vicious cycle continues year after year after year
Old Sneakers wrote:

If any team wishes to compete from a talent and payroll standpoint then it must acquire prospects and develop them.


You can go through arbitration once and payroll will remain healthy. After that you have no choice but to move those you can not build around. You go through arbitration a second time and your payroll suddenly goes into flux. It becomes a matter of "Is this player really worthwhile?"

Service time clocks are ticking away right now on the team's core talent.
JJ Hardy-Gone after 2014
Nick Markakis-Gone after 2014 (2015 team has $2Million option or pay $17.5 Million=He's as good as gone!)
Jim Johnson-Gone after 2014 (Will cost too much in 2014, he's gone in 2015)

This is manageable! Hardy will be missed greatly as his salary vs. worth has been an excellent investment! He's done all you could ask for but perhaps slow starts. Markakis is expensive now. While he's been a good player I don't think he's worth the money he got early. Johnson as we all know has been over used and gets exposed in July the past two years. His salary is huge for his role. Better to part company with him this off-season. But fans will tolerate his departure next year.


Matt Weiters-Gone after 2015
Chris Davis-Gone after 2015

Weiters is going to get way too much money. His defense has been outstanding, he's a fine catcher. I wish him well. I don't want him or his agent destroying the Baltimore Orioles payroll for the next 4-7 years. He's not worth it. As for Davis, he will likely prove to have peaked in Baltimore and make some team a fine first baseman for years to come. He will likely prove to be a fine investment for a large payroll team. That team is not in Baltimore. I wish him, his agent and foolish fans the best. While first base has been an annual issue for Baltimore fans the problem is very manageable. Trade both of them and completely restock this team's minor league system for the next three to four years!

Would the 2014 Baltimore Orioles look fantastic in 2014? Unlikely. I think your already looking at 77 wins at best now! I survived the 2008 and 2009 fiascoes that were thrust upon us. I can tolerate a mediocre year in 2014. But there are no excuses to "Win now and suck later" because that is exactly where we are headed at present!

Lets keep going!

Over the next two years from today. We will likely see Mike Wright, Eduardo Rodriguez and perhaps Tim Berry slowly worked into the Baltimore Orioles starting rotation. None will be flawless at first and it is acceptable if an option or two gets burned before they are rotation mainstays. After this however they should be able to work out well and remain affordable for some time. Then guess who is arbitration eligible? Chris Tillman! While we loved his results in half of 2012 and all of 2014 it might be time to make a move following 2014. If he has another fine season he would be worth a bundle! If not he's going to get it in arbitration from the Orioles. Did I mention Wei-Yin Chen? He is reported to make $4.07 Million in 2014 as is. Guess what after 2014 he's arbitration eligible too! He won't come cheap. Certainly he's been a fine investment, but he's not a 200 IP a year player. Might as well consider trade options on him soon as well.

My point is Davis' and Weiters' value is right now as high as it ever will be. Both can be replaced. They are not saviors, they are not the over the top talents that will cause this team to win a division. The best contribution they possibly could make for this team is as a return in prospects. It's up to Dan Douquette to explore trade options. Coming from me it's just another fan's opinion but for the money been shelled out we could be a lot better.


It's obvious that some think the way of conducting baseball operations is to try to be like the Tampa Rays (who never won anything that I can remember). Let your prospects play for 4 years and then move them 1 year or 2 before free agency for more prospects. Let the rich continue to pay for the top players. The Orioles will move their players at their peak and the hell with their fanbase because it's the almighty David vs. Goliath scenario. That's total BS in my mind.

And then I hear "well we can't win with them, might as well move them while the irons hot". Or he will never put up those kinds of numbers again, see Chris Davis. Maybe we can bring back Brandon Snyder to replace Chris Davis. Or we can trade Hardy and move Manny to shortstop, then we can re-sign Scott Moore to be our 3rd baseman.

Although don't forget we have to trade Manny in 3 years because he's going to be making too much money in arbitration.

That's why I posted this previously:

"Then the next crop of soon to be Oriole free agents can then be traded for more prospects, and the vicious cycle continues year after year after year."
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #9 by osforlife » November 24th, 2013, 3:48 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
It's obvious that some think the way of conducting baseball operations is to try to be like the Tampa Rays (who never won anything that I can remember). Let your prospects play for 4 years and then move them 1 year or 2 before free agency for more prospects. Let the rich continue to pay for the top players. The Orioles will move their players at their peak and the hell with their fanbase because it's the almighty David vs. Goliath scenario. That's total BS in my mind.

And then I hear "well we can't win with them, might as well move them while the irons hot". Or he will never put up those kinds of numbers again, see Chris Davis. Maybe we can bring back Brandon Snyder to replace Chris Davis. Or we can trade Hardy and move Manny to shortstop, then we can re-sign Scott Moore to be our 3rd baseman.

Although don't forget we have to trade Manny in 3 years because he's going to be making too much money in arbitration.

That's why I posted this previously:

"Then the next crop of soon to be Oriole free agents can then be traded for more prospects, and the vicious cycle continues year after year after year."

If the Tampa Bay Rays had any kind of fan base, they would have won a World Series at least once in the last six years. They aren't supposed to be in the playoffs. To win 90 games five of the last six years with that payroll is truly remarkable. If the Orioles implement Tampa's policies, with $30-$40MM more to work with, who could stop Baltimore? The reason I'm proposing a full-out sell-off, is because I don't even see a good team next year. If the Orioles aren't good next year, are they going to be better in 2015? Hardy, Markakis, Jim Johnson; free agents. Who replaces free agents? More free agents? It doesn't work that way. A team can have a good farm system and a good major league club. The Rays and Cardinals always have the combo. Who is constantly in the playoffs year after year? The Cardinals and Rays. I love Baltimore's players as much as the next fan, but some of these decisions are common sense. Chris Davis is never going to repeat the year he had in 2013; trade him while his value is high. Matt Wieters is looking more and more like he is not a core player, with a increasing salary; trade him. Jim Johnson is getting paid $11MM as a RELIEF PITCHER; eat some money and trade for a good prospect. Hardy is one year away from free agency, and the Orioles already have a young, capable shortstop on the team; trade him. The Orioles don't have to trade every body that is going to hit free agency in a couple of years. They need to extend young, core players while they are young(Evan Longoria, Matt Moore).
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #10 by Old Sneakers » November 24th, 2013, 4:23 pm

The Rays, without a championship are perennial contenders. I look at them with pure envy. I won't say I am like osforlife and say "full-out sell-off" but I would certainly consider a partial one. I think if the team was handled correctly Gausman, Machado and a few others would enter the prime of their careers with a better supporting cast than what is likely to be in place at present.

This is why I put it out there that Weiters or Davis should be shopped now. One, the other or both will end up one of the high salary teams anyway. We at least ought to walk away a few dollars heavier with prospects likely to pan out.

If Andy McPhail had handled the 2008-2011 Orioles more "professionally" and spent more wisely then this team would never have rushed prospects. I think most of the blame him for Arrieta, Matusz and a few others not working out the way things should have. This does not mean quality prospects are doomed to fail this franchise.
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #11 by Seafordeagles » November 24th, 2013, 4:51 pm

Well guys DON'T use my comparison to the Rays. Everything else will still happen by trading your better players a year or 2 BEFORE free agency, and then the cycles continues year after year.................

I understand you guys want to shop Wieters and Davis for "prospects" but my question is this (caps for emphasis) WHEN WILL THAT EVER END AND IS THAT THE WAY FOR THE ORIOLES TO CONDUCT BUSINESS?
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #12 by Old Sneakers » November 24th, 2013, 5:30 pm

Keep players you can build around ie Machado, Jones and perhaps Tillman. Shop the ones that are good but not worthy of top dollar contracts ie Chen, Weiters, Davis, Markakis (prior to his big payday). Eventually your talent base peaks and is affordable.
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #13 by Seafordeagles » November 24th, 2013, 6:18 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:Keep players you can build around ie Machado, Jones and perhaps Tillman. Shop the ones that are good but not worthy of top dollar contracts ie Chen, Weiters, Davis, Markakis (prior to his big payday). Eventually your talent base peaks and is affordable.


We had a guy in 2013 put up numbers just about, or as good in Orioles history and that goes back to 1954, and you DON'T think Chris Davis is WORTHY of a top dollar contract.

What else can the guy do to be "worthy"? I'm totally lost in your way of thinking. Oh well I guess I'll never understand.
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #14 by Old Sneakers » November 24th, 2013, 7:06 pm

I do not think Chris Davis is worthy of a top dollar contract. He's likely peaked. While he is still just 27 years old he will command a monstrous contract. One this team is unlikely to afford. What don't you get about that?

This is not the NY Yankees we are talking about. They are not going to run the payroll up to $150million anytime soon. The team must be smart in how it spends it's money or it will go right back to 13 years of miserable results.
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Re: O's Interested in Johnny Peralta...for LF?

PostPost #15 by Seafordeagles » November 24th, 2013, 7:38 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:I do not think Chris Davis is worthy of a top dollar contract. He's likely peaked. While he is still just 27 years old he will command a monstrous contract. One this team is unlikely to afford. What don't you get about that?

This is not the NY Yankees we are talking about. They are not going to run the payroll up to $150million anytime soon. The team must be smart in how it spends it's money or it will go right back to 13 years of miserable results.


I tell you what I "do get about that", I'm glad you aren't the one pulling the strings and making the deals. The big misconception is you play right along with Peter Angelos and his "woe is me" attitude. He's making extreme returns on his money from the Baltimore Orioles and HE chooses not to spend the MONEY on the product. He fleeced the Nationals on the MASN deal. He's getting an extra 25 mil form the TV contract. He chooses to be frugal in comparison to other teams and has ever since the Albert Belle injury.

The Baltimore Orioles can spend so much more than they are spending now. That I get.
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