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Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #46 by Seafordeagles » February 13th, 2013, 5:23 pm

osforlife wrote:So is that pitching roster not realistic? I sure think it is, and that is without injuries.


What pitching roster?
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #47 by OriolesRedskins28 » February 15th, 2013, 2:38 pm

Their starting rotation will surprise a lot of people this year. Good talent, great depth, and potential TOR reinforcements in the second half of the season. I expect to see the rotation perform closer to the level of the second half of last season (and maybe better) rather than the first.
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #48 by birdwatcher55 » February 15th, 2013, 3:28 pm

I'm onboard as well with the thought Bundy is in the rotation by August. This is good stuff!!! 8-)
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #49 by osforlife » February 15th, 2013, 8:15 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
What pitching roster?

Rule V picks always have a greater chance to make the roster than their value, experience, or expected production might suggest given their situation. Like one commenter said above, about 30 % of Rule V picks stick with their club throughout the whole season. This season, it will be harder for one player to stay with the Orioles all year, as we are EXPECTED to win. Last year, Flaherty did not produce for much of the season, but we had to keep him on the roster in order to keep him for the years ahead. Now, I'd say it was definitely worth wasting a roster spot for one year for potentially having a great super utility player for the next five. If McFarland does not produce, he'll likely get booted off the team. But, he seems to be decent, and may have a future as a relief pitcher for the Orioles. That being said, I think it is likely we could see Matusz, Britton, Arrieta, and Redmond all go down to the minors to start the year. From that, it would be safe to assume Steve Johnson would be our 5th starter and T.J. McFarland would be our long man. I believe McFarland will either make the roster or be one of the, or the final cut from Spring Training.
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #50 by Seafordeagles » February 15th, 2013, 10:22 pm

osforlife wrote:Rule V picks always have a greater chance to make the roster than their value, experience, or expected production might suggest given their situation. Like one commenter said above, about 30 % of Rule V picks stick with their club throughout the whole season. This season, it will be harder for one player to stay with the Orioles all year, as we are EXPECTED to win. Last year, Flaherty did not produce for much of the season, but we had to keep him on the roster in order to keep him for the years ahead. Now, I'd say it was definitely worth wasting a roster spot for one year for potentially having a great super utility player for the next five. If McFarland does not produce, he'll likely get booted off the team. But, he seems to be decent, and may have a future as a relief pitcher for the Orioles. That being said, I think it is likely we could see Matusz, Britton, Arrieta, and Redmond all go down to the minors to start the year. From that, it would be safe to assume Steve Johnson would be our 5th starter and T.J. McFarland would be our long man. I believe McFarland will either make the roster or be one of the, or the final cut from Spring Training.


So if Matusz, Britton, Arrieta, and Redmond have better springs than McFarland you want to keep a lesser player on the roster because they have options?
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #51 by osforlife » February 15th, 2013, 10:29 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
So if Matusz, Britton, Arrieta, and Redmond have better springs than McFarland you want to keep a lesser player on the roster because they have options?

First of all, I do not believe Matusz, Arrieta, or Britton should be in contention for a bullpen spot, given they all still have potential as starters in my view. That would mean, the 5th starter spot is down to Todd Redmond, TJ McFarland, and Steve Johnson.
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #52 by Seafordeagles » February 15th, 2013, 11:00 pm

osforlife wrote:First of all, I do not believe Matusz, Arrieta, or Britton should be in contention for a bullpen spot, given they all still have potential as starters in my view. That would mean, the 5th starter spot is down to Todd Redmond, TJ McFarland, and Steve Johnson.


Don't you think it's just a tad early to not include Matusz, Arrieta, or Britton in the scenario for the 5th spot than to give the 5th starter spot to Todd Redmond, TJ McFarland, or Steve Johnson.

Also Matusz was just about lights out last year out of the bullpen. Go to masn and look at Duquette's video on using pitchers in long relief and then moving them to the starting rotation an maybe you will change your mind.
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #53 by ofahn » February 15th, 2013, 11:52 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:So if Matusz, Britton, Arrieta, and Redmond have better springs than McFarland you want to keep a lesser player on the roster because they have options?


Yes, because I would spend the extra time developing them so they have productive ML careers. IMO that's a LOT more important than a few ML starts.
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #54 by ofahn » February 15th, 2013, 11:55 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:Also Matusz was just about lights out last year out of the bullpen.


Fine, but he would be a more important asset as a #2 or #3 ML SP. Let's give him the development time he deserves. The bullpen will always be there if he can't rise above that role.
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #55 by osforlife » February 16th, 2013, 11:30 am

Seafordeagles wrote:
Don't you think it's just a tad early to not include Matusz, Arrieta, or Britton in the scenario for the 5th spot than to give the 5th starter spot to Todd Redmond, TJ McFarland, or Steve Johnson.

Also Matusz was just about lights out last year out of the bullpen. Go to masn and look at Duquette's video on using pitchers in long relief and then moving them to the starting rotation an maybe you will change your mind.

I don't think Matusz and Arrieta should even be in consideration for a roster spot given their performance last year. Yes, Matusz was very effective coming out of the bullpen. But, Buck wants him to be a starter and so does he. A quality starter is much more valuable than a quality reliever. He still has potential, and hopefully Rick Petersen, in AAA first, can translate the success he had from the bullpen to the rotation. If he does not dominate AAA hitters, than it probably will be time to convert him into a full-time relief pitcher. That description basically fits Arrieta too. As for Britton, he has the best chance of making the rotation. He should not be in consideration for a bullpen spot, he is a starting pitcher. I think we rushed him back after his injury as he did not perform well in AAA or MLB. Obviously, something was wrong with his command & location. Maybe it had something to do with his mechanics or after effect from his injury. Anyways, he was not the pitcher we saw in 2011, and until he proves he can dominate AAA hitters, he should not be put in the rotation. Plus, he has spent almost no time in AAA so a little more time developing will do him good.
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #56 by ofahn » February 16th, 2013, 11:44 am

osforlife wrote:I don't think Matusz and Arrieta should even be in consideration for a roster spot given their performance last year. Yes, Matusz was very effective coming out of the bullpen. But, Buck wants him to be a starter and so does he. A quality starter is much more valuable than a quality reliever. He still has potential, and hopefully Rick Petersen, in AAA first, can translate the success he had from the bullpen to the rotation. If he does not dominate AAA hitters, than it probably will be time to convert him into a full-time relief pitcher. That description basically fits Arrieta too. As for Britton, he has the best chance of making the rotation. He should not be in consideration for a bullpen spot, he is a starting pitcher. I think we rushed him back after his injury as he did not perform well in AAA or MLB. Obviously, something was wrong with his command & location. Maybe it had something to do with his mechanics or after effect from his injury. Anyways, he was not the pitcher we saw in 2011, and until he proves he can dominate AAA hitters, he should not be put in the rotation. Plus, he has spent almost no time in AAA so a little more time developing will do him good.


Nice post. Well considered and well written.

POINTS!
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #57 by Seafordeagles » February 16th, 2013, 5:18 pm

osforlife wrote:I don't think Matusz and Arrieta should even be in consideration for a roster spot given their performance last year.



Wow, this statement goes way beyond my way of thinking. I know ofahn liked your post and I consider him a person with decent knowledge but still. There have been way too many baseball players that stunk up the joint and than became very effective players.

Now please trust me I am going to mention a couple of players that when they made their major league debuts that were absolutely horrible. I am also "not comparing our players to these hall of fame players". Sandy Koufax was horrible for 4 years. Mickey Mantle had to be sent back to the minors as did Willie Mays. I' m glad their managers didn't have the same reasoning as you gave because they were not effective the previous year and shouldn't make the major league roster.

You HAVE to go with your best players whether they have options or not. If McFarland earns his spot then I am all for him making the major league roster. And it's way too early to pick who makes the team on February 16th.
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #58 by Old Sneakers » February 16th, 2013, 7:24 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:

Wow, this statement goes way beyond my way of thinking. I know ofahn liked your post and I consider him a person with decent knowledge but still. There have been way too many baseball players that stunk up the joint and than became very effective players.

Now please trust me I am going to mention a couple of players that when they made their major league debuts that were absolutely horrible. I am also "not comparing our players to these hall of fame players". Sandy Koufax was horrible for 4 years. Mickey Mantle had to be sent back to the minors as did Willie Mays. I' m glad their managers didn't have the same reasoning as you gave because they were not effective the previous year and shouldn't make the major league roster.

You HAVE to go with your best players whether they have options or not. If McFarland earns his spot then I am all for him making the major league roster. And it's way too early to pick who makes the team on February 16th.


What you have to say has merit. That is why we have spring training too. The truth is if Matusz, Arrieta or anyone invited earns a rotation spot then so be it. My issue is after five starts it looks like a gigantic mistake then someone really screwed up the decision making process.

I know many pitchers bounce to and from the minors before becoming finished products. However, it really is time for both of those guys to put up or shut up.
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #59 by osforlife » February 16th, 2013, 7:49 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:

Mickey Mantle had to be sent back to the minors as did Willie Mays.

Is that not my am I proposing? Did I ever say Matusz & Arrieta don't have potential? I think they have a great future, a better one than TJ McFarland and Steve Johnson. I seriously don't think there is anything wrong with sending these talented pitchers to AAA to work with a great pitching coach and finish off their development.
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Re: Back to the Starting Rotation for 2013

PostPost #60 by Seafordeagles » February 16th, 2013, 8:51 pm

osforlife wrote:I don't think Matusz and Arrieta should even be in consideration for a roster spot given their performance last year.
osforlife wrote:Is that not my am I proposing? Did I ever say Matusz & Arrieta don't have potential? I think they have a great future, a better one than TJ McFarland and Steve Johnson. I seriously don't think there is anything wrong with sending these talented pitchers to AAA to work with a great pitching coach and finish off their development.


I really don't understand your 1st sentence but reading into the rest of the post I think you are back tracking on your original statement which is below:

"I don't think Matusz and Arrieta should even be in consideration for a roster spot given their performance last year."

I never mentioned potential and I don't believe you did either until this last post. You are basing their spot on the roster due to their performance last year. Which to me is totally wrong. Hopefully you will agree with me that these guys finally "get it" and bring a division championship to the Orioles this year. I'm all about winning this year, not next year or 2 years from now.
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