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Revisiting The Orioles' 40 Man Roster

Revisiting The Orioles' 40 Man Roster

PostPost #1 by ofahn » November 3rd, 2012, 7:00 pm

This is the Orioles' 40 Man Roster as of November 3rd. The players that had been on the 60 Day Disabled List have been reinstated, but the team has not yet selected (promoted) the contracts of prospects that would be available* to other teams in the Rule 5 Draft if the Orioles don't add them to their Man Roster by November 20th. Don posted a list** of the players he thought the Orioles should consider adding this winter or risk losing them. It's posted below.

The roster currently stands at 38. The question becomes: how many players on the current list should be removed to allow spots for prospects that need yo be protected from the Rule 5 Draft or allow the Orioles to acquire other talent. In some cases players that are removed can be out righted to the minors and will stay in the system. Other players have earned the right to declare themselves free agents and explore other opportunities.

Which players from this list would you be willing to remove EVEN IF it means losing them, and WHY?

# Pitchers B/T Ht Wt DOB
34 Jake Arrieta R-R 6'4" 225 6-Mar-86
38 Luis Ayala R-R 6'2" 175 12-Jan-78
53 Zach Britton L-L 6'3" 195 22-Dec-87
49 Dylan Bundy S-R 6'1" 195 15-Nov-92
16 Wei-Yin Chen L-L 6'0" 195 21-Jul-85
Zach Clark R-R 6'0" 195 11-Jul-83
61 Oliver Drake R-R 6'4" 215 13-Jan-87
50 Miguel Gonzalez R-R 6'1" 170 27-May-84
39 Jason Hammel R-R 6'6" 225 2-Sep-82
29 Tommy Hunter R-R 6'3" 250 3-Jul-86
43 Jim Johnson R-R 6'6" 240 27-Jun-83
52 Steve Johnson R-R 6'1" 220 31-Aug-87
17 Brian Matusz L-L 6'4" 200 11-Feb-87
56 Darren O'Day R-R 6'4" 220 22-Oct-82
40 Troy Patton S-L 6'1" 180 3-Sep-85
55 Stuart Pomeranz R-R 6'7" 220 17-Dec-84
47 Pedro Strop R-R 6'0" 215 13-Jun-85
30 Chris Tillman R-R 6'5" 210 15-Apr-88
18 Tsuyoshi Wada L-L 5'11" 180 21-Feb-81

# Catchers B/T Ht Wt DOB
59 Luis Exposito R-R 6'3" 210 20-Jan-87
31 Taylor Teagarden R-R 6'0" 215 21-Dec-83
32 Matt Wieters S-R 6'5" 240 21-May-86

# Infielders B/T Ht Wt DOB
11 Robert Andino R-R 6'0" 195 25-Apr-84
24 Wilson Betemit S-R 6'2" 220 2-Nov-81
Alexi Casilla S-R 5'9" 180 20-Jul-84
19 Chris Davis L-R 6'3" 230 17-Mar-86
3 Ryan Flaherty L-R 6'3" 210 27-Jul-86
2 J.J. Hardy R-R 6'1" 190 19-Aug-82
13 Manny Machado R-R 6'3" 185 6-Jul-92
54 Joe Mahoney L-L 6'6" 240 1-Feb-87
28 Steve Pearce R-R 5'11" 210 13-Apr-83
35 Omar Quintanilla L-R 5'9" 185 24-Oct-81
1 Brian Roberts S-R 5'9" 175 9-Oct-77

# Outfielders B/T Ht Wt DOB
70 Xavier Avery L-L 6'0" 190 1-Jan-90
71 L.J. Hoes R-R 6'0" 190 5-Mar-90
10 Adam Jones R-R 6'3" 225 1-Aug-85
21 Nick Markakis L-L 6'1" 190 17-Nov-83
14 Nolan Reimold R-R 6'4" 205 12-Oct-83

CURRENT TOTAL 38

Which prospects from the list, below, would you place on the 40 Man Roster to protect? Which prospects would you leave off, and WHY? Remember, you can ONLY have 40 players on the roster.

**DON'S LIST OF ORIOLES' PROSPECTS TO BE CONSIDERED FOR ADDITION TO THE 40 MAN ROSTER

L.J. Hoes

Hoes was always a tool driven prospect that could hit, good glove, good enough not to be a clogger on the base paths. He could not find a home on the field and the defensive focus was holding back any growth with the bat. He spent his first three season up and down, hot and cold. It was not until working with Denny Hocking that I started to see the hip/torso separation in his game and the bat trending North. He is an above average contact hitter that may find a power stroke later in his development. I see the path and extension that could get it to slightly below average, who knows if he ends up 10 pounds heavier 27-30 years old. He is isolated to the outfield, really not enough arm to play in RF. His range and glove hold their own in left and there is a chance for high contact rate with the bat. If the contact stays high and he plays sound defense, he could be an tick above replacement level. He could be an everyday, really solid 4th outfielder who could hit off the bench.

Seeing the improvements this season, almost plus contact rate, and bat speed that has ability, I think the Orioles end up protecting him. It could be between him and Avery, with Avery providing speed that is always useful on the bench. If exposed, he is that player teams take a flier on with one tool and versatility in the field. While not a regular, he could play 3B, RF, CF in a pinch. He will Surely be on the AAA list, so strictly subjected to MLB phase.

Bobby Bundy

Bobby always impressed me with his mentality on the hill. He has a good no quit type of game in him. He should be a heavy innings-eater pitcher that could live off his FB, CH, CB. He had a minor bone spur injury this summer. After surgery to shave down the bone growth irritation, Bobby is currently rehabbing the injury in Sarasota. The issue could have been a major factor in his command of the fastball and curve, which has seemed to be his kicker the last two seasons. When Bobby Bundy Scouting Reporton his game, the curve is a knockout pitch, and there is very deceptive action between the fastball and change up. The action on the change up is good enough now that it is an effective offering at the major league level. At his best, he can ride it low and often. The hope is the bone spur was the main issue why his pitches rode high often. I see a pitcher that could sit 3-4 in the rotation and get ground balls in bunches. He will be worth monitoring because if his command comes back in the spring, he could be a factor in the rotation or bullpen with the Orioles.

Teams may be slightly scared to take an arm that is coming off surgery, but most know bone spurs are not something that throws up red flags, more open ended questions. He is that player who could flourish in a bullpen and teams could use an arm that may read 94-95 mph in one inning stints with a knockout curve. Teams may be tempted if they know Bobby is completely healthy, and he could be the type teams are willing to take a risk on if left unprotected. He will surely be on AAA list, so strictly subjected to MLB phase.

Ashur Tolliver

Power left handed pitcher, check. Ability to get out left handed batters, check. If not for a UCL injury that required Tommy John Surgery, he would easily have been a candidate as a left handed pitcher in the Orioles bullpen this season. Tolliver has an impressive arm for his size and is very strong. However, the delivery placed a good deal of torque on his arm. He is currently in Sarasota rehabbing his elbow and all signs is that he should be an arm to watch out. His speed and ability to keep it low inducing high ground balls will always be in high demand.

I would be shocked if he were left unprotected in the AAA or AA phase, as left handed pitchers that can touch 96 mph do not know on trees. He is also the type of player that a team in need of a LOOGY could take a shot in the dark at. He needs to be brought back slowly in 2013, so I do not think he gets selected and could be a factor in the Orioles at some stage later next season. I think he will be reserved on one of the minor league lists, but he would surely be selected if not protected.

Ryan Berry

Another player who had trouble staying healthy. He has faced multiple arm issues since his days with the Rice Owls. He has seen cysts, tendinitis, and a number of minor hiccups with the shoulder as a professional. Berry is mainly a two pitch guy with a low 90s fastball and solid 11/7 curve, and he is showcasing mainly as a back of the bullpen arm. He has decent deception, shows an arsenal that gets out both sides effectively, and can command the ball well enough to be an effective 6th-7th inning reliever.

I do not think the Orioles will protected him on the 40, but likely place him on the 38 man AAA roster. He is another type that could be selected in Rule 5. He has shown that he can reach back for 92 mph and locate it well in the zone. He can keep it on the ground and miss bats, which comes in high demand for teams taking a flyer on 7th man in the bullpen. I think he will be reserved on one of the minor league lists, but he would surely be selected if not protected on the AAA or AA rosters.

Tyler Townsend

Talk about a lot of promise that has been derailed time after time with injuries. At one point, I thought he was a slight steal of a player that could produce enough offense to stay at 1B in a first division program. He has the size and power. Adding the loft in the swing power will always be a factor that he would bring to the table. His power was not reaching plus-plus, but would be considered above average at this time. He has missed a great deal of at bats, which will hurt an already growing concern with contact. His swing can get long at times and there may be a concern that contact could be maintained high enough for the power to factor, limited exposure has not allowed him the chance to refine and grow his approach.

Power is always a need for teams. They want to look at guys that can fill a role, mostly bullpen, but power bat off the bench rates up. The Orioles are likely going to leave him unprotected on the 40 man roster, but protect him on the minor league list. I do not see a team taking the chance on the major league phase because he needs more time developing. He will be reserved on one of the minor league lists, so strictly subjected to MLB phase.

Aaron Baker

Big powerful thunder stick, arguably the best power bat in the Orioles system. He is simply a masher, and if he gets a hold of the offering it is surely out of any ball park. His contact and approach has some stuff left to improve upon, in order to let that power flourish. He has compacted and shortened the stroke, showing better two strike disciplined approach, but both have a long way to go reaching enough contact to showcase the power in his game as he moves closer to the parent club. He hit the injury bug over a month ago with a strained oblique. Surgery looks to be avoided, but this will be worth monitoring into next season.

You cannot teach power or speed. They resimply something you are born with and why teams try to find both while uncovering every rock known to man. I would never rule out a team taking a chance with the huge power ceiling he possesses. It is one of the risks teams prefer taking in the Rule 5. I think he will be placed on the reserve lists and teams will not have a chance to add his power to the depths of their minor league development.

Jesse Beal

Any time a pitcher can come back and return to form from shoulder labrum surgery, it is considered a success. He was a pitcher that always lived with good command and control of the fastball. He has seen a touch of improved velocity and was able to sustain the velocity in his 2-3 inning outings. The curve has maintained good depth to be an effective offering, but mainly he was mostly showing the fastball in relief. Even in limited exposure and working basically off one pitch sometimes, he showed some quality efforts. I caught him in the middle of the season, he was simply a ground ball machine.

His role may be better suited as a middle reliever type. He could vastly improve his size with his frame, and all would really help push him up the ladder. He has not been truly tested above low A, and is the type of pitcher that could be selected in the latter phases of the draft to fit into another system. Each team has a protected list and he has too much talent to be exposed. There is a very slim chance that he is left up protected on both the AAA and AA lists. If he does not get placed on either MiLB reserve list, he will almost surely get selected in the minor league phase.

Brenden Webb

Webb’s Major strength to his game has always been his arm. It has solid carry and is one of the best in the system. He has solid speed that shows him as a versatile defender. The patience at the plate has greatly improved, but it requires additional work as he is moving to a higher class of pitching with better quality of the breaking ball. Webb’s deception on the change up is improving. He tends to get a bit long and his drifting hand load could pose difficulties as he progresses. His overall approach has improved and he has the bat speed where more compaction could drastically help his offensive game; rounding him out to a higher prospect. He shows pop when he gets a hold of it and the ball sounds great in BP. There has been progress this season and he has the hands, and natural athletic ability to mark him as a solid track & follow prospect. With his skill set and the tools he brings to the table, he is one of the top 50 prospects in the Orioles system and should be protected either with the AAA or AA roster.

This is simply me talking. I would have to guess that he has low 90′s mph carry in the outfield and with instruction he could be a 93-94 mph pitcher with the fastball, maybe more. He has a ton of arm strength and if the position player path starts to fade, he could give pitching a try.

Tyler Kelly

He is proof that hard work and determination can at least get you on the radar and into the big picture. Not everyone works on the same timetable and others blossom later in their careers. I am not seeing much difference in his stroke, but boy it is night and day on his plate awareness and patience. The game has slowed down, and he has a solid compact approach with adequate bat speed. His path is more contact driven. He has always been a sound, bring your lunch pale to work type of defender. He will not wow you, but he has some surprising agility and overall athletic ability. He has more than enough in the tank to stick at 2B, and could be a very useful utility player who I could see at 3B, and even SS in a pinch (if needed). I cannot see a way the Orioles do not protect him, even if there are others that provide more “upside”. Kelly has done nothing but produce. These are the types that may get over matched on the parent club, but I have seen worse off at least provide a cup of coffee level production to a parent club.

http://orioles-nation.com/2012/08/29/20 ... e-players/

*Rule V Draft Rules


The Rule V Draft is held annually during baseball's Winter Meetings. Teams must file a 40-man roster with the league office by November 20. Any player who fits all of the criteria below is eligible for the Rule V Draft:

Player is not on the 40 man roster

Player has been in the minor leagues for at least 4 years if he was signed after age 19 (was 3 years before the 2006 CBA).

Player has been in the minor leagues for at least 5 years if he was signed before age 19 (was 4 years before the 2006 CBA).

The cost of drafting a player is $50,000 (this amount has stayed the same since the 1985 Rule V Draft. It was $25,000 from 1958 to 1984). Any player drafted must remain on the drafting team's 25-man roster the entire first season he is with the drafting club (This rule also changed some time in the early 1980's. Previously the drafted player had to remain on the drafting team's roster for the first 90 days of the saeson).

At least 90 days of that first season must be maintained at "active status" (not on any disabled list). If a player cannot be active for 90 days in that first year due to a legitimate extended injury, whatever remains of the 90 day obligation MUST be met from the beginning of the following year, his 2nd season with the drafting club.

In order to be sent to the minors in that first year (or a 2nd season extension, due to a legitimate extended injury in the first year), the player drafted under Rule 5 must be offered back to the club from which he had been drafted for a $25,000 waiver fee. Should the team from which the draftee was taken via Rule 5 not accept him back, it is the same as releasing the drafted player from that team's interest, and the Rule 5 obligations of the drafting team cease upon that release.

Occasionally drafting teams will return another player in lieu of the waiver fee if they wish to keep the drafted player in their organization, but send him to the minor leagues during that first year's obligation. This effectively negates the Rule 5 draft by converting the acquisition of the Rule 5 eligible player into a trade, rather than continuing with the Rule 5 obligations of the drafting team.

Minor league teams can also participate in the draft. AAA teams can draft any player eligible from AA for $12,000, and AA teams can draft any players that are eligible from Class A for $4,000. Players chosen in the minor league part of the draft do not need to return to the original teams for any reason.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Rule_V_Draft

RULE 5 DRAFT NOTES

It is rare that a Rule V draftee turns into a major league All-Star. The best known Rule V player is Roberto Clemente, who was drafted from the Brooklyn Dodgers by the Pittsburgh Pirates, after the 1954 season. Also, 2004 American League Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana (1999) and 2008 All-Star Dan Uggla (2004), 2010 American League MVP Josh Hamilton (2006) and 2010-2011 AL home run king Jose Bautista (2003) were Rule V draftees.

Over the years, the Toronto Blue Jays have been one of the biggest beneficiaries of the draft, selecting club fixtures Willie Upshaw, George Bell, Jim Acker, and Kelly Gruber.
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Re: Revisiting The Orioles' 40 Man Roster

PostPost #2 by thezeroes » November 3rd, 2012, 7:53 pm

Robert Andino
Steve Pearce
Omar Quintanilla
Luis Exposito
Taylor Teagarden

I believe could all be removed for various reasons.
Andino had a lackluster last 4 months. The claiming of Casilla makes him expendable.

Omar Quintanilla (See Andino)

Luis Exposito and Taylor Teagarden are serviceable backup catchers but if something were to happen with Wieters would you want either one for an extended period of time??

Steve Pearce is your typical find on the open market. He has some tools but they are barely above a replacement level. He has no options remaining.

Tyler Kelly
Aaron Baker
Bobby Bundy
These would all be good selections for the 40 man roster.

I have removed 5 players while adding 3 which gets my roster to 36 total. Offer Teagarden and Exposito a MiLB contract with a ST Invite. We do need a backup at catcher and it seems that Caleb Joseph has fallen out of favor. Brian Ward has held some promise but the drug thing may hold him back.

Pearce could be offered the same (MiLB Deal) but would probably need an opt out if not on the 40 at the end of ST.

If the Orioles brass has no intention of allowing Mahoney a chance to break into the 25 man roster it may be time to cut bait on him as 2013 will be his last year of having an option remaining. If they resign Reynolds to a multi-year contract then he should/could be exposed to waivers.

This is just my take and would allow the re-signing of Saunders, Reynolds and have two open spots for a rule 5 player and backup catcher at the end of ST.
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Re: Revisiting The Orioles' 40 Man Roster

PostPost #3 by ofahn » November 3rd, 2012, 8:04 pm

thezeroes wrote:Luis Exposito and Taylor Teagarden are serviceable backup catchers but if something were to happen with Wieters would you want either one for an extended period of time??


Have you looked at the list of available Cs this winter? The two common traits among them are 1) they're old; 2) they can't play at a ML level. Teagarden looks like Johnny Bench next to those guys and we'll have him for about 800K. I could see Exposito DFA'd, but then we would have to troll that same swamp to find a solid insurance policy we can option to AAA.
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Re: Revisiting The Orioles' 40 Man Roster

PostPost #4 by ofahn » November 3rd, 2012, 8:07 pm

thezeroes wrote:If the Orioles brass has no intention of allowing Mahoney a chance to break into the 25 man roster it may be time to cut bait on him as 2013 will be his last year of having an option remaining.


IMO the ONLY reason that Mahoney isn't part of the Orioles' future is that he hasn't given the team any reason to believe he should be. At AAA he didn't hit for power. His glove is good, but not THAT good.
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Re: Revisiting The Orioles' 40 Man Roster

PostPost #5 by Old Sneakers » November 3rd, 2012, 9:54 pm

It's almost enjoyable in a macabre way. In the past the Rule V draft wasn't too much of a concern but as your talent base gets stronger you really have to manage that roster wisely.

In the end though I think L.J. Hoes and Bobby Bundy are protected. I will guess that thezeroes forgot Hoes. Beyond that, the team needs to know at this point what it has and has not and make tough choices. As for that statement about available Catchers... yes I've said it before and I will say it again. When you draft positional players SS, 2B, CF and C are at a premium. To complicate matters for the Orioles, Weiters is behind the plate more than most. Almost to the point where you have to consider how durable is he going to be in 2 years.


EDIT: Jordan PM'd me with the following

"FYI - Hoes was placed on the 40 Man when he was called up in September."

My bad :p
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Re: Revisiting The Orioles' 40 Man Roster

PostPost #6 by ofahn » November 3rd, 2012, 10:09 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:It's almost enjoyable in a macabre way. In the past the Rule V draft wasn't too much of a concern but as your talent base gets stronger you really have to manage that roster wisely.


Isn't it nice when the players you intend to drop from the 40 Man are legit MLers? When was the last time we had to worry about THAT?
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Re: Revisiting The Orioles' 40 Man Roster

PostPost #7 by Jordan Tuwiner » November 3rd, 2012, 10:12 pm

Bundy will be protected for sure. I believe one of Andino, Casilla, Quintanilla will be dropped. I could Brian Ward being added too. I think he could become the backup catcher at some point next season.
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Re: Revisiting The Orioles' 40 Man Roster

PostPost #8 by ofahn » November 3rd, 2012, 10:15 pm

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:I could Brian Ward being added too. I think he could become the backup catcher at some point next season.


Don didn't have him on his list and I forgot about him. Good catch.
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Re: Revisiting The Orioles' 40 Man Roster

PostPost #9 by osforlife » November 4th, 2012, 12:24 pm

I didn't completely read the rules above, just skimmed through it. If a player is being protected by being placed on a AAA roster or AA roster, can they still be selected in the major league phase? I don't see a need for Andino, Quintanilla, Exposito. I'd keep Teagarden, but no Luis. Unless I'am forgetting somebody, Joseph will be Norfolk's everyday catcher, Ward will be Bowie's everyday catcher, and Ohlman will be Frederick's everyday catcher. So we have depth. But I'd still keep TT. Steve Pearce might be useful as a right-handed bat off the bench. Of course Reimold has his spot covered, but he is prone to getting hurt so Pearce is some nice insurance. Although, if I do believe correctly, we have Lew Ford and Ford and Peace are similiar players. On the bubble with Steve.
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Re: Revisiting The Orioles' 40 Man Roster

PostPost #10 by ofahn » November 4th, 2012, 5:35 pm

osforlife wrote:I didn't completely read the rules above, just skimmed through it. If a player is being protected by being placed on a AAA roster or AA roster, can they still be selected in the major league phase?


The short answer is YES. The only way you can prevent an ELIGIBLE (at risk) player from being selected in the Rule 5 Draft is to place them on the 40 Man Roster by (this year) November 20th and keep that player on the 40 Man through the draft. As I understand it once you have a player selected by another club you can pull an ELIGIBLE player back, and that process continues until the draft ends.

The AAA and AA rosters ONLY protect a player from being taken in the Minor League Phase of the draft. That's important because players taken in that phase do not have to be returned which means you lose them forever.

osforlife wrote:I don't see a need for Andino, Quintanilla, Exposito. I'd keep Teagarden, but no Luis.


IMO the team MIGHT DFA Exposito, but he would probably be their last choice. He's only 25 and has shown he won't faint on a ML diamond. Considering the rogue's gallery of available Cs this winter I don't know where they would find anyone better as a MiLB free agent.

osforlife wrote:Unless I'am forgetting somebody, Joseph will be Norfolk's everyday catcher, Ward will be Bowie's everyday catcher, and Ohlman will be Frederick's everyday catcher. So we have depth. But I'd still keep TT.


Ohlman looks like he might be a real prospect, but Ward is old to be playing at Bowie and Joseph doesn't seem to have the team's confidence. I could see them trading him and keeping Exposito at AAA. Regardless, the depth chart at C doesn't inspire confidence.

osforlife wrote:Steve Pearce might be useful as a right-handed bat off the bench. Of course Reimold has his spot covered, but he is prone to getting hurt so Pearce is some nice insurance. Although, if I do believe correctly, we have Lew Ford and Ford and Peace are similiar players. On the bubble with Steve.


If the team decides to go with Betemit at DH then I could see Pearce as his platoon partner against LHs.
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