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Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #1 by steve » October 28th, 2012, 3:31 am

If no why? I would like him as a starter. Sure hes been bad this year on Giants,,But ill tell you what,,Ill bet you Rick Adair can solve his pitching problems like how he corrected some of our pitchers. Like Zack Britton for example hes much improved
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #2 by ofahn » October 28th, 2012, 10:02 am

steve wrote:If no why? I would like him as a starter. Sure hes been bad this year on Giants,,But ill tell you what,,Ill bet you Rick Adair can solve his pitching problems like how he corrected some of our pitchers. Like Zack Britton for example hes much improved


Clearly, from his post season performance, Lincecum can still pitch. He might not be an ace anymore, but he would be the Orioles #1 SP. The issue is how much salary would the Giants eat and what would they want in return? Let's say they ate all but 10M. That's probably a fair price for the potential/risk equation. At that price they're going to want a REAL prospect back. Someone like Bridwell or Delmonico. At that point you have to wonder if he's worth the price. If the Giants were willing to take our comp balance pick I'd be willing to pay that price because we would probably get that back next winter by making a qualified offer.

IMO the question becomes - if money is not an issue and the trade cost is the same (comp pick) would you rather have Peavy or Lincecum?
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #3 by osforlife » October 28th, 2012, 10:19 am

ofahn wrote:
He might not be an ace anymore, but he would be the Orioles #1 SP.

And Greinke wouldn't???
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #4 by osforlife » October 28th, 2012, 10:23 am

steve wrote:If no why? I would like him as a starter. Sure hes been bad this year on Giants,,But ill tell you what,,Ill bet you Rick Adair can solve his pitching problems like how he corrected some of our pitchers. Like Zack Britton for example hes much improved

Lincecum is definitely intriguing. I think you have Rick Adair mixed up with Rick Petersen. And I think you have Zach Britton mixed up with Chris Tillman.
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #5 by ofahn » October 28th, 2012, 11:34 am

osforlife wrote:And Greinke wouldn't???


Lincecum would cost us the same or less money and at the end of the season we're off the risk. If Greinke wants to sign for one season @ 20M I'd be happy to have him.
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #6 by steve » October 28th, 2012, 12:44 pm

Well Rick Adair is a good pitching coach perhaps one of the best in MLB. Im glad we have him. Nobody compared to Ray Miller long time ago he was the best pitching coach we ever had.
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #7 by ofahn » October 28th, 2012, 12:56 pm

steve wrote:Well Rick Adair is a good pitching coach perhaps one of the best in MLB. Im glad we have him. Nobody compared to Ray Miller long time ago he was the best pitching coach we ever had.


Except for George Bamberger.
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #8 by osforlife » October 28th, 2012, 3:24 pm

ofahn wrote:
Lincecum would cost us the same or less money and at the end of the season we're off the risk. If Greinke wants to sign for one season @ 20M I'd be happy to have him.

Not what I was asking. Contract aside, you have said before how you don't see how Greinke would be better than Hammel or Tillman. Yet, you say Lincecum would be our #1 pitcher.
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #9 by steve » October 28th, 2012, 4:55 pm

ofahn wrote:
Except for George Bamberger.

Miller was way better than Bamberger. You see Palmer,,McNally and Cuellar needed no help.They knew how to do their jobs and control their pitches. But Flagnagan,McGreggor and Boddicker ocasonaly get in trouble and Miller knows what to tell em. And Our Young pitchers right now Adair tells em to settle down and work on getting rest of ur hitters out and then let the bullpen do the rest of the work.
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #10 by steve » October 28th, 2012, 4:58 pm

osforlife wrote:Not what I was asking. Contract aside, you have said before how you don't see how Greinke would be better than Hammel or Tillman. Yet, you say Lincecum would be our #1 pitcher.


Hes right dude. Lincecum would be o's #1 pitcher
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #11 by ofahn » October 28th, 2012, 7:59 pm

osforlife wrote:Not what I was asking. Contract aside, you have said before how you don't see how Greinke would be better than Hammel or Tillman. Yet, you say Lincecum would be our #1 pitcher.


You're right. I thought you were focusing on the contract.

I don't believe I said that Tillman was better than Greinke at this point. I believe I said that I felt that Tillman had more POTENTIAL. We'll have to see what he does with that. Even with that awesome potential I wouldn't want Tillman on the mound in a must win game at this point; however he may get to that point.

The last dozen or so games we played this year were essentially all "must win" games for us. We had rookies Chen and Gonzales pitching some of those as well as veterans Saunders and Hammel. IMO the only clunker in all of those starts was Tillman against Tampa, and you could argue that three runs in five innings wasn't a clunker. I look at Greinke's limited (three games) post season experience and see three clunkers. Combine that with his past anxiety issues and that's not the guy I want on the mound for all the marbles.

I don't believe that we should give a contract of six or seven years to a pitcher. We're not the Yankees. If we guess wrong with that kind of financial commitment we don't have the financial resources to go buy something else. Would I sign Greinke to, say, a three year 45M contract? Maybe. First, I would have to consider that the one surplus we have in our system is young SP with two legit #1 and three legit #2 SPs in that mix. I see Greinke as a #2 SP on a good team. Second, regardless of how much or little we were to pay him I still wouldn't want him on the mound in a Game Seven. That's my opinion and I feel strongly about it. IMO if we're going to pay a guy 15M or more a year to pitch for us we should be able to trust him when it counts. For me, that's not Greinke.
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #12 by steve » October 28th, 2012, 11:33 pm

The Giants will not give Lincecum another chance to start. Hes now in long relief role. Some pitchers will complain if a club wont let him start then he wants out to another club. I heard no complaints from Brian Matusz he accepted that role he even knows hes not good to be a starter. If Lincecum starts conplaining to the press he wants to start then O's need to offer a trade to the Giants for Lincecum. Then give him another start.
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #13 by osforlife » October 29th, 2012, 11:08 am

ofahn wrote:
You're right. I thought you were focusing on the contract.

I don't believe I said that Tillman was better than Greinke at this point. I believe I said that I felt that Tillman had more POTENTIAL. We'll have to see what he does with that. Even with that awesome potential I wouldn't want Tillman on the mound in a must win game at this point; however he may get to that point.

The last dozen or so games we played this year were essentially all "must win" games for us. We had rookies Chen and Gonzales pitching some of those as well as veterans Saunders and Hammel. IMO the only clunker in all of those starts was Tillman against Tampa, and you could argue that three runs in five innings wasn't a clunker. I look at Greinke's limited (three games) post season experience and see three clunkers. Combine that with his past anxiety issues and that's not the guy I want on the mound for all the marbles.

I don't believe that we should give a contract of six or seven years to a pitcher. We're not the Yankees. If we guess wrong with that kind of financial commitment we don't have the financial resources to go buy something else. Would I sign Greinke to, say, a three year 45M contract? Maybe. First, I would have to consider that the one surplus we have in our system is young SP with two legit #1 and three legit #2 SPs in that mix. I see Greinke as a #2 SP on a good team. Second, regardless of how much or little we were to pay him I still wouldn't want him on the mound in a Game Seven. That's my opinion and I feel strongly about it. IMO if we're going to pay a guy 15M or more a year to pitch for us we should be able to trust him when it counts. For me, that's not Greinke.

"I'm curious as too why you feel that Greinke is better than Hammel or Tillman. I just don't see it."
October 19th, 2012, 11:58 am
"Responding to A_K’s comment: Let's not fool ourselves. Greinke is substantially better than any Orioles pitcher since Bedard. Whether signing him is a good move is another question. But he's definitely better than anything we have."
I agree with you on Greinke's contract, I hope the Orioles don't pay for him. However, he is a very good pitcher. 3 games in baseball is nothing. You have kinda veered off the question. You say Greinke wouldn't be our #1 pitcher, yet you say Lincecum would be?
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #14 by ofahn » October 29th, 2012, 11:33 am

osforlife wrote:3 games in baseball is nothing.


I conceded it was a small sample, BUT I felt it was an IMPORTANT sample because I would argue that it was the three most important games he ever started. The fact that he was not dominant in any of them is very telling.

osforlife wrote:You have kinda veered off the question. You say Greinke wouldn't be our #1 pitcher, yet you say Lincecum would be?


Either I have not articulated myself well (if so, I'm sorry) or you misunderstand my point. I said that Greinke is IMO a #2 SP on a good team and that Lincecum would be OUR #1 SP. It really is a distinction WITH a difference. In effect, I'm saying that I rate Lincecum ahead of Greinke, although I'm not willing to label Lincecum as an Ace anymore. There are so few of them in baseball.

We MIGHT have two legitimate candidates for the label of Ace; Dylan Bundy and Kevin Gausman. I also believe that Chris Tillman has the POTENTIAL to be one; however, there's a lot of self confidence that needs to manifest itself within that young man before he gets there. To me an Ace is a SP that will get you DEEP into a "must win" game and pitch well enough that your team has a chance to win without an offensive explosion. He's the kind of pitcher that fans and players just KNOW is going to give you a chance to win every time he takes the mound.

It would be like Christmas (or Hanukkah) everyday if all three of those guys developed to that level, but I'd be happy with just one.

P.S. I sent you a PM but they're hanging up in the Outbox again. Look for it.
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Re: Should Tim Lincecum ever play for our birds?

PostPost #15 by birdwatcher55 » October 29th, 2012, 1:47 pm

Come on guys.. get real..Lincecum is not going to pitch here on a one year $20mil plus contract. Not happening LOL :lol:
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