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Reynolds and McLouth want to return

Re: Reynolds and McLouth want to return

PostPost #46 by ofahn » October 17th, 2012, 9:31 am

Matt P wrote:Headley is one of the elite defensive 3B as well as one of the elite offensive 3B. How can you not expect him to have been better than Machado was?
What future do you keep talking about? A couple of former prospects and a non top 100 prospect?


I believe we're comparing apples and oranges. IMO Headley would not have been enough improvement over Machado for us to have won the division or ALDS.

I see it as important to remember the status of our talent at the trading deadline. SD wanted two pitchers whom, although they had vastly underperformed, were all we really had as ML ready reserves in our system. IF we had traded them and one of our starters had gone down we would have been back to looking for another ADAM EATON. No thank you.

At that point Chris Tillman, Miguel Gonzales, and Steve Johnson were unknown quantities. Can anyone REALLY say they just KNEW that all three of these guys would play at an impact level? Of course, Joe Saunders wasn't an Oriole yet and the opinions on this forum weren't the most supportive of the trade. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1393 The fact that he was also an impact acquisition probably came as a surprise to most of us.

As I saw it then, we were gambling our pitching reserves on a player that I did not see as a difference maker on his own AND we were selling at the bottom of the market for two talented assets.

Then there's the "throw in" prospect(s). Bridwell was one of the best four pitching prospects in our system and Delmonico was one of the best four hitting prospects. For a farm system that is so barren, I find it difficult to give up one of those guys as a premium in an effort to support a team that I did not see as championship caliber. Apparently, DD saw it the same way and I'm grateful for that.

On July 31st we were just starting to make our run, were FAR behind the Yankees, and many of the members on this forum were concerned about the difficulty of the upcoming schedule. It was no slam dunk that we were going to win 82 games (which was the goal I had set for the season), much less the division. On October 3rd the heavy price for Headley looked a lot more reasonable because it turned out we didn't need the extra pitching, but not two months earlier.

I just see this discussion as arguing about the clarity of the water already under the bridge. If we can get Headley for a fair price, then let's do it. If not, then let's look elsewhere for other ways to improve the team. I don't see him as the difference BY HIMSELF; we're going to need at least two of the "core four" to step up to the next level to be a legit contender next year.
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Re: Reynolds and McLouth want to return

PostPost #47 by DashingDave314 » October 17th, 2012, 10:03 am

I still have questions about McLouth's durability, but I'd love to bring him back. Ideally, I think he belongs in a fourth outfielder role because there are still a ton of questions regarding his durability. I'd bring back Reynolds, but definitely not for $11 million or whatever his option is for. We could just do a "nudge-nudge wink-wink" deal where we give him 2 or 3 guaranteed years and he gets a more reasonable annual salary. I can't imagine teams are going to be THAT interested in him anyway.
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Re: Reynolds and McLouth want to return

PostPost #48 by Matt P » October 17th, 2012, 12:08 pm

ofahn wrote:
I believe we're comparing apples and oranges. IMO Headley would not have been enough improvement over Machado for us to have won the division or ALDS.

I see it as important to remember the status of our talent at the trading deadline. SD wanted two pitchers whom, although they had vastly underperformed, were all we really had as ML ready reserves in our system. IF we had traded them and one of our starters had gone down we would have been back to looking for another ADAM EATON. No thank you.

At that point Chris Tillman, Miguel Gonzales, and Steve Johnson were unknown quantities. Can anyone REALLY say they just KNEW that all three of these guys would play at an impact level? Of course, Joe Saunders wasn't an Oriole yet and the opinions on this forum weren't the most supportive of the trade. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1393 The fact that he was also an impact acquisition probably came as a surprise to most of us.

As I saw it then, we were gambling our pitching reserves on a player that I did not see as a difference maker on his own AND we were selling at the bottom of the market for two talented assets.

Then there's the "throw in" prospect(s). Bridwell was one of the best four pitching prospects in our system and Delmonico was one of the best four hitting prospects. For a farm system that is so barren, I find it difficult to give up one of those guys as a premium in an effort to support a team that I did not see as championship caliber. Apparently, DD saw it the same way and I'm grateful for that.

On July 31st we were just starting to make our run, were FAR behind the Yankees, and many of the members on this forum were concerned about the difficulty of the upcoming schedule. It was no slam dunk that we were going to win 82 games (which was the goal I had set for the season), much less the division. On October 3rd the heavy price for Headley looked a lot more reasonable because it turned out we didn't need the extra pitching, but not two months earlier.

I just see this discussion as arguing about the clarity of the water already under the bridge. If we can get Headley for a fair price, then let's do it. If not, then let's look elsewhere for other ways to improve the team. I don't see him as the difference BY HIMSELF; we're going to need at least two of the "core four" to step up to the next level to be a legit contender next year.

You don't think Headley would have been at least a 1 win improvement over Machado? Machado played great defense and batted 7th-9th in the lineup. Headley plays great defense and is a legit middle of the order hitter. It's okay to admit you made a mistake from time to time and undervalued Headley.
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Re: Reynolds and McLouth want to return

PostPost #49 by ofahn » October 17th, 2012, 12:24 pm

Matt P wrote:You don't think Headley would have been at least a 1 win improvement over Machado? Machado played great defense and batted 7th-9th in the lineup. Headley plays great defense and is a legit middle of the order hitter. It's okay to admit you made a mistake from time to time and undervalued Headley.


Alright, let's say that Headley WAS worth one win over Machado. We lost the division by TWO games, and there was only one game in the ALDS where one run would have made a difference. For Headley to have made a difference in that one game would have required some really epic circumstances.
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