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Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #1 by Jordan Tuwiner » September 11th, 2012, 10:48 pm

This is mostly directed at birdwatcher, but is still something to consider in general when discussing Brian Matusz and Jake Arrieta.

Birdwatcher has campaigned all season for Arrieta and Matusz to never wear and O's uniform again. Looking back at birdwatcher's posts, he/she also said similar things regarding Zach Britton.

I think it's fairly obvious that the organization's patience with Britton has worked in their favor.

Britton's ERA, FIP, and xFIP are all in line with his totals last year and his stuff has looks outstanding over his last few outings.

Arrieta and Matusz both clearly have talent and I still hold out hope for them to become successful starters down the road.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #2 by OriolesRedskins28 » September 11th, 2012, 11:15 pm

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:This is mostly directed at birdwatcher, but is still something to consider in general when discussing Brian Matusz and Jake Arrieta.

Birdwatcher has campaigned all season for Arrieta and Matusz to never wear and O's uniform again. Looking back at birdwatcher's posts, he/she also said similar things regarding Zach Britton.

I think it's fairly obvious that the organization's patience with Britton has worked in their favor.

Britton's ERA, FIP, and xFIP are all in line with his totals last year and his stuff has looks outstanding over his last few outings.

Arrieta and Matusz both clearly have talent and I still hold out hope for them to become successful starters down the road.


I still have great confidence in Arrieta, it seems like he turned things around in AAA after working with Rick Peterson and Mike Griffin. His initial AAA numbers were poor but that was likely influenced by the fact that they had him working on specific things in games that might not have been most conducive to him putting up good numbers on that night. His numbers toward the end of his AAA stint were outstanding. If Hammel is going to miss time I think Jake should get a shot to move back into the rotation.

Arrieta needed to become more mentally tough and aggressive on the mound and according to a recent interview with one of the beat writers (Melewski or Ghiroli) that's exactly what they had him working on in AAA and he said it has worked wonders for him for whatever that's worth.

I'm not as high on Matusz but I agree with you Jordan that neither should be given up on at this point.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #3 by Matt P » September 11th, 2012, 11:22 pm

I like the fact that Arrieta has been seeing a sports psychologist. It was obvious to me that his biggest problem was his head. Also have to be encouraged by the fact he went to AAA with a willingness to do anything that Peterson asked of him.

Either way, the only person in the world who wants to give up on them is birdwatcher55. A lot may feel they are movable in a trade and should be far from untouchable but I haven't seen anyone else suggest dumping them.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #4 by ofahn » September 12th, 2012, 7:39 am

OriolesRedskins28 wrote:I'm not as high on Matusz but I agree with you Jordan that neither should be given up on at this point.


I actually think that Matusz has more TALENT but Arrieta has more HEART. Matusz CAN get RHs out. He blew right through two of them last night.

I can see him as the player most likely to moved this winter because I think Buck has come to the conclusion that he just doesn't have enough "want to".
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #5 by LA Detective » September 12th, 2012, 7:51 pm

Jason Hammel speaks of how much a trip to the pen helped him greatly. I think the trip to the minors to find a consitent delivery and the pen time will help both greatly. Matusz is really going after hitters. It isnt like he is suddenly thowing 95. There is no reason he cant take what he is doing now into a starting roll for 7 innings. I saw some great things in Arrieta this past Sunday...Stats wise wasnt great but some of his stuff was unhittable. If he had to start a game down the stretch for us i think we would be pleasantly suprised of the results. TIllman and Britton stepped up. I see A and M having a great chance to come into 2013 ready to do the same..

Does anyone know who has options left for next year b/t Matusz, Arrieta, SJohnson, MGonzo, Wada and Tillman? My point is that if we dont make trades this winter we could still go into next year with great depth wtih these guys competing for spots and with Budy getting close. We might be forced into trades if none of them have options.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #6 by ofahn » September 12th, 2012, 7:54 pm

LA Detective wrote:Does anyone know who has options left for next year b/t Matusz, Arrieta, SJohnson, MGonzo, Wada and Tillman?


I'm sure that Johnson and Gonzales have options left. Wada normally would but he has a contract clause that requires his permission to option him. I don't know about the other three nor Tommy Hunter.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #7 by LA Detective » September 12th, 2012, 8:57 pm

Has a big effect on what we can do this winter. I am all for trading up for a top pitcher or position player but if we didnt I would feel very confortable about grinding out 162 games with who's hot, fresh or stepped up and the idea of getting Bundy ready to help us in October. No options for JA, BM or Tillman would force us into trading. Hunter should be in the pen. He really gets it up there in short stints. He would probably be a 90+ inning force in the middle of the pen..
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #8 by ofahn » September 12th, 2012, 9:35 pm

LA Detective wrote:the idea of getting Bundy ready to help us in October


I would expect Bundy to be limited to between 160 and 180 innings next year so I wouldn't count on him for October UNLESS the team severely limits his innings early in the year. I expect him to be next year's Strasburg controversy.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #9 by Old Sneakers » September 15th, 2012, 4:31 am

I seem to recall the largest "Worry" regarding Brian Matuzs being that his fastball was ordinary. His secondary pitches were supposed to be his strength. Is that wrong? Meaning that because the fastball was ordinary his game would rely upon deception and command/control of his pitches. I am not stating that. I am asking so please don't go nuts on me if I have that wrong.

As for Arrieta, I don't know. I know he would've been the guy I picked to win 10 games first on the team this season. Likely he would be the guy I would pick to win ten games next year first as well. We've seen him look like a TOR type guy and AAA guy later. If he or the team ever figures it out we really have something. Sadly, time is running out.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #10 by Adam Wolff » September 15th, 2012, 1:10 pm

I'm very encouraged by what both of these guys have done since moving to the pen. As I mentioned a little while ago with Matusz, in the interim the team now has 2 more reliable arms to use and hopefully having this success and establishing some confidence can help these two move back into the rotation in the long term.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #11 by birdwatcher55 » September 17th, 2012, 2:36 pm

My sense is Matusz could be our next setup guy if Strop continues his decline. As for 2013, I would keep Matusz in the role he is flourishing in. Why tamper with success?? Arrieta I would jetison in a deal and then sign a FA veteran innings eater to take his place. This would give us a nice rotation: Hammel, Chen, Tillman, Saunders, and FA with Bundy on the horizon 8-)
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #12 by thezeroes » September 22nd, 2012, 8:34 am

birdwatcher55 wrote:My sense is Matusz could be our next setup guy if Strop continues his decline. As for 2013, I would keep Matusz in the role he is flourishing in. Why tamper with success?? Arrieta I would jetison in a deal and then sign a FA veteran innings eater to take his place. This would give us a nice rotation: Hammel, Chen, Tillman, Saunders, and FA with Bundy on the horizon 8-)


So you are also giving up on Gonzalez and Britton?? Let us not forget Wada will be in the mix next year.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #13 by LA Detective » September 23rd, 2012, 4:06 pm

I would expect Bundy to be limited to between 160 and 180 innings next year so I wouldn't count on him for October UNLESS the team severely limits his innings early in the year. I expect him to be next year's Strasburg controversy.[/quote]

your right. Thats why I hope they Os take the same approach next year with Bundy. Start him out slow. Let him build up his arm and fine tune some things and get him into late July where he can come up and be available to make it thru Oct.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #14 by ofahn » September 23rd, 2012, 4:12 pm

LA Detective wrote:I would expect Bundy to be limited to between 160 and 180 innings next year so I wouldn't count on him for October UNLESS the team severely limits his innings early in the year. I expect him to be next year's Strasburg controversy.


LA Detective wrote:your right. Thats why I hope they Os take the same approach next year with Bundy. Start him out slow. Let him build up his arm and fine tune some things and get him into late July where he can come up and be available to make it thru Oct.


If his performance in ST FORCES the team to bring him north then I would use him as the fifth starter REGARDLESS how he compares to the other four SPs. That would allow the team to skip him on multiple occasions, which would keep some innings available in October.

P.S. Can you even BELIEVE that we're having this conversion about how we would set up for the playoffs NEXT year? Damn! How far this team has come.
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Re: Don't give up on Arrieta and Matusz yet

PostPost #15 by LA Detective » September 23rd, 2012, 4:23 pm

This will be one of the most interesting winters in a long long time around here. There are so many different directions we could go. When you have the pitching depth we do any player or trade is possible. Will we get an ace or an all-star positon player? Will there be some big suprises? If we did absoluetly nothing but upgrade at 2b i would be happy with that considering the depth we have in pitching. I really dont see DD or Buck making any big mistakes and that we will be even better than the team we have seen the last 50 games.
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