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Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #31 by rudyrooster » January 9th, 2013, 5:50 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:Thank God some of you don't run our front office. I can't believe the fascination here about dealing a solid SS, and 50-save closer for a package of mediocre talent. Please come to your senses!!! :roll:



Let me add my "Amen" to that as well. Hallelujah brother!
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #32 by Seafordeagles » January 9th, 2013, 6:00 pm

A_K wrote:The funny thing about this conversation is that the trade proposal definiteily IS laughably ridiculous, but that's because Detroit, not Baltimore, would laugh at the proposal. Hardy and Johnson aren't near enough to get Porcello and Castellanos. If this trade were actually proposed for even a second Duquette would grab the bag and run away laughing.


I have no problem with Castellanos and in the 30ish posts on this thread I never mentioned him. My problem is Porcello for JJ Hardy.
We already have enough Rick Porcello's on the Orioles staff. To trade the reigning gold glove shortstop who has hit over 50 home runs in a Oriole uniform for a pitcher who lost his starting job is purely ridiculous.
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #33 by ofahn » January 9th, 2013, 6:11 pm

A_K wrote:The funny thing about this conversation is that the trade proposal definiteily IS laughably ridiculous, but that's because Detroit, not Baltimore, would laugh at the proposal. Hardy and Johnson aren't near enough to get Porcello and Castellanos. If this trade were actually proposed for even a second Duquette would grab the bag and run away laughing.


I'm not so sure about that. Last November I might have agreed, but we're five weeks out from pitchers and catchers and Detroit believes they need a solid SS to enhance their chance to go to the WS. They also KNOW that they don't want to open the season with an unproven rookie as a closer. They're all in this season and their window is a narrow one.

If they want our closer and SS they'll have to pay whatever price we demand. IMO the best 3B prospect in the game and a POTENTIAL #2 SP that throws tons of ground balls is a fair price considering the barrel we have them over. WE don't have to make this trade. THEY do.
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #34 by A_K » January 9th, 2013, 6:21 pm

I don't agree at all. We have no one over a barrel. Teams generally aren't in any hurry to trade one of baseball's ten best prospects.

I'm not really sure how you see us as having leverage. It's not as though Hardy is the only capable SS the Tigers could conceivably acquire, and it's not like their only chance to improve is between now and the start of spring training.

Man, I'm foaming at the mouth at the thought of ending up with Porcello and Castellanos for Hardy and Johnson (which, best of all, would let our most valuable asset play the position that would allow him to maximize his value). That would be incredible. Now I need to re-convince myself not to get worked up about hypothetical Internet trades, damn it.
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #35 by ofahn » January 9th, 2013, 6:24 pm

A_K wrote:I don't agree at all. We have no one over a barrel. Teams generally aren't in any hurry to trade one of baseball's ten best prospects.

I'm not really sure how you see us as having leverage. It's not as though Hardy is the only capable SS the Tigers could conceivably acquire, and it's not like their only chance to improve is between now and the start of spring training.

Man, I'm foaming at the mouth at the thought of ending up with Porcello and Castellanos for Hardy and Johnson (which, best of all, would let our most valuable asset play the position that would allow him to maximize his value). That would be incredible. Now I need to re-convince myself not to get worked up about hypothetical Internet trades, damn it.


I'm sure that you realize that I'm not saying that this trade will happen; only that it makes sense for both sides. Of course, making sense has not always been the driving force behind a trade.

Be careful about that foaming at the mouth. Someone might mistake you for Old Yeller and that would REALLY ruin your day.
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #36 by osforlife » January 9th, 2013, 6:57 pm

A_K wrote:I don't agree at all. We have no one over a barrel. Teams generally aren't in any hurry to trade one of baseball's ten best prospects.

I'm not really sure how you see us as having leverage. It's not as though Hardy is the only capable SS the Tigers could conceivably acquire, and it's not like their only chance to improve is between now and the start of spring training.

Man, I'm foaming at the mouth at the thought of ending up with Porcello and Castellanos for Hardy and Johnson (which, best of all, would let our most valuable asset play the position that would allow him to maximize his value). That would be incredible. Now I need to re-convince myself not to get worked up about hypothetical Internet trades, damn it.

Would Castellanos and Peralta for Jim Johnson and JJ Hardy be fair?
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #37 by Seafordeagles » January 9th, 2013, 7:13 pm

Why was my last post removed? That's okay, I know who did it.
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #38 by osforlife » January 9th, 2013, 7:23 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
Yeah and Manny sucks at 3rd base too...........................

Untapped potential, hell we got 5 pitchers with untapped potential named Tillman, Britton, Matuz, Arieta, Steve Johnson. You can even throw Tommy Hunter in there. We already have 6 pitchers with as much "upside" as Porcello. Why add another?


and yes it is ridiculous, even Dan Duquette knows that.

Manny Machado could probably become a good defensive third basemen, just as he could become a good defensive shortstop, but the longer he stays at third base, the less likely he will make the transition back to shortstop in a couple years, thus, reducing his positional value. The average shortstop's production is less than the average third basemen's production, no?

Tommy Hunter and Steve Johnson do not have untapped potential. Their future in the Major Leagues will be in the bullpen. I'd take Porcello over Brian Matusz, Zach Britton, and Jake Arrieta. Britton and Porcello have similiar stuff, but Porcello has proven his stuff over 4 years, while Britton has just the one. They both probably top out as ground-ball #2's. I still believe that with good mechanics and a much better mentality, Jake Arrieta could become a #1 starting pitcher. But the more and more I think about it, I just see him being a shutdown closer. I believe Chris Tillman could be a #1 if his fastball was not as straight, and this will lead to homerun problems- #2. I don't know what to expect out of Brian Matusz anymore. Think of it this way, out of the Cavalry and Rick Porcello, I'd only plug Chris Tillman and Rick Porcello into our rotation. And considering he'd be the youngest and most proven, makes him even more appealing.
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #39 by ofahn » January 9th, 2013, 7:24 pm

osforlife wrote:Would Castellanos and Peralta for Jim Johnson and JJ Hardy be fair?


I wouldn't make that trade.
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #40 by OriolesRedskins28 » January 9th, 2013, 9:08 pm

osforlife wrote:Manny Machado could probably become a good defensive third basemen, just as he could become a good defensive shortstop, but the longer he stays at third base, the less likely he will make the transition back to shortstop in a couple years, thus, reducing his positional value. The average shortstop's production is less than the average third basemen's production, no?

Tommy Hunter and Steve Johnson do not have untapped potential. Their future in the Major Leagues will be in the bullpen. I'd take Porcello over Brian Matusz, Zach Britton, and Jake Arrieta. Britton and Porcello have similiar stuff, but Porcello has proven his stuff over 4 years, while Britton has just the one. They both probably top out as ground-ball #2's. I still believe that with good mechanics and a much better mentality, Jake Arrieta could become a #1 starting pitcher. But the more and more I think about it, I just see him being a shutdown closer. I believe Chris Tillman could be a #1 if his fastball was not as straight, and this will lead to homerun problems- #2. I don't know what to expect out of Brian Matusz anymore. Think of it this way, out of the Cavalry and Rick Porcello, I'd only plug Chris Tillman and Rick Porcello into our rotation. And considering he'd be the youngest and most proven, makes him even more appealing.


AMEN!!!
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #41 by A_K » January 9th, 2013, 9:17 pm

osforlife wrote:Manny Machado could probably become a good defensive third basemen, just as he could become a good defensive shortstop, but the longer he stays at third base, the less likely he will make the transition back to shortstop in a couple years, thus, reducing his positional value. The average shortstop's production is less than the average third basemen's production, no?

Tommy Hunter and Steve Johnson do not have untapped potential. Their future in the Major Leagues will be in the bullpen. I'd take Porcello over Brian Matusz, Zach Britton, and Jake Arrieta. Britton and Porcello have similiar stuff, but Porcello has proven his stuff over 4 years, while Britton has just the one. They both probably top out as ground-ball #2's. I still believe that with good mechanics and a much better mentality, Jake Arrieta could become a #1 starting pitcher. But the more and more I think about it, I just see him being a shutdown closer. I believe Chris Tillman could be a #1 if his fastball was not as straight, and this will lead to homerun problems- #2. I don't know what to expect out of Brian Matusz anymore. Think of it this way, out of the Cavalry and Rick Porcello, I'd only plug Chris Tillman and Rick Porcello into our rotation. And considering he'd be the youngest and most proven, makes him even more appealing.


Agree with all of this. I'd also add that Rick Porcello is a pitcher who relies inordinately on a good defense and who happens to be pitching in front of the worst defense in the history of baseball. If nothing changes but his hat and jersey, you can still expect major improvements in his production.
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #42 by Seafordeagles » January 9th, 2013, 10:44 pm

I have no problem acquiring Porcello. I have a problem trading Hardy or Jim Johnson. I also don't want Peralta who will be a free agent next season and I don't believe he is needed for a one year rental.
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #43 by Seafordeagles » January 9th, 2013, 10:45 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:I have no problem acquiring Porcello (even though I think we already have a Porcello on our roster). I have a problem trading Hardy or Jim Johnson. I also don't want Peralta who will be a free agent next season and I don't believe he is needed for a one year rental.
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #44 by A_K » January 10th, 2013, 12:19 pm

Well yes I imagine in the hypothetical world in which we could acquire Porcello and Castellanos for free, there'd be little opposition to the maneuver.
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Re: Tigers want Hardy, but O's unlikely to deal him

PostPost #45 by Seafordeagles » January 10th, 2013, 3:05 pm

A_K wrote:Well yes I imagine in the hypothetical world in which we could acquire Porcello and Castellanos for free, there'd be little opposition to the maneuver.


In the hypothetical world I said I have no problem ACQUIRING PORCELLO. Please show me where I said Castellanos. Better yet here's what I said and of course you didn't quote it:

"I have no problem acquiring Porcello. I have a problem trading Hardy or Jim Johnson. I also don't want Peralta who will be a free agent next season and I don't believe he is needed for a one year rental."
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